The Current State of Rugby
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im not sure where to look this up so asking the question, anyone know what the red/yellow card situation has been after the first 3 weeks of super rugby compared to the past?
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Decent video here highlighting the in-game and week to week inconsistencies the sport is facing via overzealous and in some cases incompetent refereeing.
Its card roulette and we are all taking turns getting shafted by it.
I have been anti cards for a long time now, they ruin the game for me. I have found myself turning off games when a card is dished out.
I also hate the controversy caused by cards or lack of cards. Take the Blues Crusaders game for example. The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Maybe it's time to think of alternative punishments. Take the cards dished out and not dished out in the Crusader Blues game for example. They were not for dangerous foul play, rather they were for deliberate fouls to stop the other team scoring a try. Just thinking aloud here, but what about making the punishment the equivalent of conceding a try? That way there would be no point in defending teams conceding penalties deliberately if the outcome was going to be the same anyway. As it stands I think teams are sometimes willing to sacrifice a defender and hope they can hold out anyway.
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@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Decent video here highlighting the in-game and week to week inconsistencies the sport is facing via overzealous and in some cases incompetent refereeing.
Its card roulette and we are all taking turns getting shafted by it.
I have been anti cards for a long time now, they ruin the game for me. I have found myself turning off games when a card is dished out.
I also hate the controversy caused by cards or lack of cards. Take the Blues Crusaders game for example. The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Maybe it's time to think of alternative punishments. Take the cards dished out and not dished out in the Crusader Blues game for example. They were not for dangerous foul play, rather they were for deliberate fouls to stop the other team scoring a try. Just thinking aloud here, but what about making the punishment the equivalent of conceding a try? That way there would be no point in defending teams conceding penalties deliberately if the outcome was going to be the same anyway. As it stands I think teams are sometimes willing to sacrifice a defender and hope they can hold out anyway.
I just think we have talked ourselves into this probably since O'Driscoll/Umaga and the slippery slope has now avalanched.. The discourse and "climate" to use Jaco Peypers terminology is just one of hysteria around every bloody tackle. Twitter absolutists with unwavering positions lacking in nuance or empathy for a collision sport. "lead with elbow" "smashed in face".
The end game here, is more and more whinging at refs, sexton-esque head holding and arm waving to buy a penalty and disgruntled fans bickering about who did and didn't get sanctioned.
That video below is a series of gaffes just from THIS 6 nations. Look how random the sanctions are.
The Lions series "we have a deal" and the recent Irish series are the cherry on the cake for me. SBW rightly saw red (he knew what he was doing), but Mako Vunipola fore arm smashed a prone Beauden Barrett in the face and didn't see red. Similarly Sean O Brian concussed Naholo out with a swinging arm in a ruck. HE played no further part in the series. No sanction.
As for the Irish series....I didn't want Ta'avao sent off, but when Porter broke Retallicks eye I thought "here we go, whats good for the goose is good for the gander". Now I didn't want a red for Porter either, but I bloody expected one based on what I had watched the week before.
I was incredulous at what happened. "Absorbing tackle" says Barnes, a phrase heretofore not uttered in the Rugby circles. The series was essentially decided on one decision and one non decision. And that's not to mention Aki getting away with breaking Ofa with an Illegal clean out too.
The game has no credibility when that stuff happens.
At least back in the day when there was no player protection everyone got shafted the same!
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@Steve I don't blame you for thinking that way. I do too a lot of the time and it's taking away from my enjoyment of the game to the point where I am not watching as much as I used to. I am sure I am not the only one finding other things to do than watch rugby. I don't want to be pissed off at home. I get enough of that at work.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve first and foremost...whoever made that video can fuck off with the bloody text all over the screen!
...but....yeah, some very damning footage and not even NH v SH...came comp and same round even?
He’s a saffer I believe so to be fair to him he had no skin in the game in this tournament (bar all his countrymen playing for Scotland).
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@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Good post but I take issue with this - that's not the case at all and neither of those teams are my team. The win would be to be consistent - I would've been happy with no cards, or cards for both teams. I would feel the same if the card situation was flipped. If both teams suffer the same consequences, it takes a huge amount away from the "distraction".
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Good post but I take issue with this - that's not the case at all and neither of those teams are my team. The win would be to be consistent - I would've been happy with no cards, or cards for both teams. I would feel the same if the card situation was flipped. If both teams suffer the same consequences, it takes a huge amount away from the "distraction".
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
Even though I mentioned the Saders and Blues in the previous sentence I was being generic when I was talking about aggrieved fans. Poor writing on my part.
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@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
My solution is to reduce the incidence of red cards handed out on the field. Go back to when they were handed out for acts of filth and place everything else on report for a judiciary to review. Admittedly judiciaries aren't immune from baffling decisions, but at least a game isn't ruined for the playes and spectators.
As we can see from the ongoing use of cards, the premise that it's to protect players is faulty. Players are still making errors and the cards are retrospective which means no player was protected. The egrigious act has already happened.
If they want to amend player behaviours, hand out genuinely long suspensions, which can only be served by WR sanctioned events at the level they were incurred. No "game of three halves" or some third grade club game so a player is quickly back playing Tests.
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@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
My solution is to reduce the incidence of red cards handed out on the field. Go back to when they were handed out for acts of filth and place everything else on report for a judiciary to review. Admittedly judiciaries aren't immune from baffling decisions, but at least a game isn't ruined for the playes and spectators.
As we can see from the ongoing use of cards, the premise that it's to protect players is faulty. Players are still making errors and the cards are retrospective which means no player was protected. The egrigious act has already happened.
If they want to amend player behaviours, hand out genuinely long suspensions, which can only be served by WR sanctioned events at the level they were incurred. No "game of three halves" or some third grade club game so a player is quickly back playing Tests.
Thats an excellent solution. On top of it, I'd also take a look at how much slow motion is used.
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Decent video here highlighting the in-game and week to week inconsistencies the sport is facing via overzealous and in some cases incompetent refereeing.
Its card roulette and we are all taking turns getting shafted by it.
Thats actually a really good video - unsurprising when it's made by a neutral.
You can't expect 100% consistency. But on actions there shouldn't be variability between nothing and a red card. Yellow/Red .... Penalty/Yellow ... Yes. Penalty/Red .... arguable. No Sanction / Red. This shouldn't' be possible.
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Just thought I would just add a post on this thread that's maybe a little positive?
I spent yesterday arvo at local aprk here in Hawera watching 3 1st XVs play a game of 3 halves preseason fixture, before wandering home and watching Highlanders/Drua and Canes/MP games on tv and a couple of observations. We got some reasonable kids playing game even at 1st XV level, although it hurts that a couple of the good kids from NPHS and FD teams are actually locals that go off up to the bigger schools etc, but that's the reality of it. And watching the couple of games after on tv, they were bloody enjoyable. Added to that the local club comp starts next week, and I see even another local 2/3rd div team is fielding teams again this year, my personal opion is the state of rugby is bloody good right now!! -
will rugby ever catch up? over 80k going to early round domestic games
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@Kiwiwomble Probably not in Aussie , but that's what it is. I see no reason to lose sleep over it.
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@Dan54 purely to spark conversation, not an argument because in general i agree, but....is that going to hinder rugby in NZ...just because NZ isn;t really big enough and our nearest neighbour is losing ground quickly. Maybe im misremembering but i thought league was really on the back foot in the 2000's but seems to have very much turned things around
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This article could go in the NZ U20s thread but it applies to NZ rugby in general.
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@taniwharugby Fuck some of those early engages had some power behind them. Remind me of two of those deers banging horns.
