All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
Planning, structures (all provinces linking up with the IRFU high performance program), development, talent identification (both domestic and bringing in foreign born players who want to play for Ireland), great use of foreign internationals to help develop Irish national team talent and ultimately great coaching.
It didn't happen overnight, but it is now bearing fruit.
NZ don't have the best high performance program right now. It can be rectified though. NZ already has the players and coaches in its system, so the whole thing doesn't need rebuilding. But there is work to do on talent identification (lack of locks) and developing the players for test match rugby (low error rate, high execution of basics under duress).
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?No Bower stays for sure
Taylor yes.
Fuck knows at tighthead
Retallick going down is a blessing because a new lock has to play
Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
The Barretts are obviously talented but I don't know where to play them?
Havili should be cut from the squadI was kind of finding it hard to decide how Havili went Mariner, I didn't see him do a lot good (or bad) at ground, he certainly didn't show out a lot.
Mind you coming up to halftime I almost wondered if Akira was on the field too, he certainly looked to up his work in second half.
It was strange at ground (not sure how it looked on tv) but first half ABs seemed to be doing some stuff quite well, but looked to be missing any X factor players?
Will Jordan actually looked a little lost on defence a couple of times too I thought, not sure if there was a lack of communication, but seemed that Irish like the left side to attack?
Will have another peek at game on tv during week. -
@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
Perhaps we have got a little blase' with a number of X factor players over the last few years DMX and seemed to have not have really needed great game management to win games, and so haven't worked on them as much? I have kept saying I think our super teams have lost a lot of skills etc over last few years,
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
This ball v man thing o'gara talks about intrigues me
Yeah I remember watching that and it’s something I had never thought about before either ,
Is it to do with our previous strength of winning turnover ball and punishing teams going back the other way ? and that is still part of our planning when we are setting up to defend , even though it doesn’t seem to be as effective now .
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@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
From my perspective, since that extra time loss in 2013 to the ABs, I’ve seen a steady improvement from Ireland in several areas. There was so much post- match talk about improving fitness, conditioning and the mental side, which has been far more evident in the last 8 years. They have still had ups and down but far more ups then downs.
Just on that match, it has one of the most phenomenal final sequences, but we didn’t play well that match. Ireland almost played the perfect match against us and we were made to look fairly ordinary and rudderless at times. We did have class in the team, but for me the biggest thing was the self belief.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
From my perspective, since that extra time loss in 2013 to the ABs, I’ve seen a steady improvement from Ireland in several areas. There was so much post- match talk about improving fitness, conditioning and the mental side, which has been far more evident in the last 8 years. They have still had ups and down but far more ups then downs.
Just on that match, it has one of the most phenomenal final sequences, but we didn’t play well that match. Ireland almost played the perfect match against us and we were made to look fairly ordinary and rudderless at times. We did have class in the team, but for me the biggest thing was the self belief.
The current Ireland team would have committed the penalty earlier and stopped the momentum in that final sequence in 2013. They are smarter/more cynical now too.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
From my perspective, since that extra time loss in 2013 to the ABs, I’ve seen a steady improvement from Ireland in several areas. There was so much post- match talk about improving fitness, conditioning and the mental side, which has been far more evident in the last 8 years. They have still had ups and down but far more ups then downs.
Just on that match, it has one of the most phenomenal final sequences, but we didn’t play well that match. Ireland almost played the perfect match against us and we were made to look fairly ordinary and rudderless at times. We did have class in the team, but for me the biggest thing was the self belief.
The current Ireland team would have committed the penalty earlier and stopped the momentum in that final sequence in 2013. They are smarter/more cynical now too.
A Razor coached team would have deliberately infringed and killed the ball 40 metres out and near the sideline, sensing the danger.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Any citings from this game? Fucken well should be two
there won't be
but all good, World Rugby will release a video later this week with a former ref saying everything that was wrong with the decision making. Because rugby hates itself
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Not sure but ABs won 12/16 lineouts. 4 missed when Taylor was throwing sounds about right
i remember an underthrow. An overthrow. On where Savea was unsurprisingly outjumped at the front after repeatedly going there. Can't remember the other
If we are fair Taylor hit a couple of peaches as well.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Not sure but ABs won 12/16 lineouts. 4 missed when Taylor was throwing sounds about right
i remember an underthrow. An overthrow. On where Savea was unsurprisingly outjumped at the front after repeatedly going there. Can't remember the other
If we are fair Taylor hit a couple of peaches as well.
Watching Test 1 Ardie got cleaned out at lineout time early as well. You can't coach height, but you sure as shit can accept limitations of players and coach aroudn them.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Not sure but ABs won 12/16 lineouts. 4 missed when Taylor was throwing sounds about right
i remember an underthrow. An overthrow. On where Savea was unsurprisingly outjumped at the front after repeatedly going there. Can't remember the other
If we are fair Taylor hit a couple of peaches as well.
Watching Test 1 Ardie got cleaned out at lineout time early as well. You can't coach height, but you sure as shit can accept limitations of players and coach aroudn them.
Starting at 7 (or preferably coming off the bench) then I'm fully on board with Ardie, but he just isn't an 8.
We have to get some balance.
Right now, I'm leaning towards 6. Akira, 7. Savea, 8. Grace with Sotutu or Paps on the bench, if we must insist on Savea starting.
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Scotty Stevenson doesn’t want to talk about the All Blacks
'Thank you for asking me to write about the All Blacks' first home series loss since 1994. I am afraid it’s just not possible.'
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Not sure but ABs won 12/16 lineouts. 4 missed when Taylor was throwing sounds about right
i remember an underthrow. An overthrow. On where Savea was unsurprisingly outjumped at the front after repeatedly going there. Can't remember the other
If we are fair Taylor hit a couple of peaches as well.
Watching Test 1 Ardie got cleaned out at lineout time early as well. You can't coach height, but you sure as shit can accept limitations of players and coach aroudn them.
Starting at 7 (or preferably coming off the bench) then I'm fully on board with Ardie, but he just isn't an 8.
We have to get some balance.
Right now, I'm leaning towards 6. Akira, 7. Savea, 8. Grace with Sotutu or Paps on the bench, if we must insist on Savea starting.
I'm beginning to think Akira or Savea are battling it out for an early second half or 40 mins off the bench, a starting 6 like Blackadder (or Jacobson or even Robinson?) who will run into everything at full speed and clobber as hard as they can, a 7 like (Dalton, Savea? Cane looks battle weary), and a solid lineout 8 (Grace, Sotutu?)
Grace can play 6 too, right? I frankly still prefer Ardie at 7 as a starter (but others might choose Dalton)..that would mean Grace/Akira/Jacobson on the bench if Grace is not starting 8.
I like the idea of starting Blackadder, Ardie and Sotutu actually (I guess I haven't seen enough of Grace). Would have liked to have seen Robinson tried once at 6 though.
(I'm quite surprised Dalton didn't play well at 6 by the way). -
@nostrildamus When has Blackadder played half as well as Ioane did on Saturday at 6? Last year his impact was mediocre in tests, even if he appeared busy.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Cane looks battle weary
It's a strange one eh - did he even get in a decent amount of super rugby?
My brother swears by Blackadder on the blind, reckons he hurts people - but I just think he's a slightly smaller version of Grace - another 7.5 with a big motor. Just off the eye test anyway.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus When has Blackadder played half as well as Ioane did on Saturday at 6? Last year his impact was mediocre in tests, even if he appeared busy.
I think mediocre is a little harsh but I grant you sometimes he doesn't look very efficient.
