All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants aha. Makes sense now.
As a Canes supporter, it hurts. Two players, fucking hell
Over represented
In the immortal words of JRR, fuck off
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It's not really about individuals, it's about the balance of the team.
Rugby is a game of physical dominance and winning the collisions. Up to a point, big men help you do that in every position (for obvious reasons you're not going to play Ben Tameifuna on the wing). If you have too many little men - even in the backs - you're likely to start losing too many collisions - and worst of all losing consecutive collisions.
Same deal applies - according to my theory of rugby - in the loose forwards. You end up with too many collisions where it's big man on medium-sized man - and the medium-sized man doesn't quite have the angle to get his shoulder in perfectly to make his trademark big hit and he loses an extra few inches.
And you keep doing this enough times in the game - eventually the opposition is going to score.
And it's not just in general play. You're giving away a few kgs in the scrum and the maul, you're giving away a few inches at the lineout. And it all matters in the game of inches.
It's why the AB coaches are regularly trying to pack a few more kgs onto their players (to the absolute tipping point where it starts to compromise their performance elsewhere). Those few extra kgs matter.
Our gold standard loose forward trio is Kaino, McCaw, Read. They solved the problems that beset Collins McCaw and Rodney (especially in the lineout - our hookers didn't suddenly learn to throw, we gave them better targets).
I don't believe we're setting a new fashion. I don't believe anyone would pick this new fashion over our gold standard.
We just don't have players of gold standard dimensions (at 6 & 8 ) who are of proven gold standard quality. We re doing the best we can with what we have.
I'll tell you what I do like, though - is Papali'i is pretty close to gold standard quality at 7 - and he's significantly bigger than McCaw!
Go to it!!!
Could he be our?
that's ridiculously high praise
this dude is one of the best rugby players i have ever seen
I don't know if Dalton has quite that potential, and is a more traditional 7, but fuck it, I'll take any opportunity to post a photo of this guy and remind the world that some of the absolute best didn't wear black jerseys.
My absolute favorite non-AB player ever.
absolute weapon. starts at 6 in my All Time XV
I'll see your Smith and raise you a Richard Hill
Boks have been blessed down the years with blind siders (their no. 7s). Smith was a gem. It says something that a player with his capabilities rarely got the big wraps. A silent assassin.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
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What’s up with Akira? Sore foot or has he been Hansen’d?
Not ideal but given the circumstances the best we have. The Irish are going to hard at our line out and we’ll go hard at their breakdown. Under the roof it will hopefully be a fast game where our small loose trio will hopefully shine.
We have cover on the bench with some big bodies in PGS and Patty so not so worried there. In Patty’s case he may be under done after playing touch rugby in Japan for a season.
AB’s by 10+
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@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
He has a "clean sweep" against the ABs in 2009 to put in his Daewoo
Bok backrow from 2007 WC win was Smith/Burger/Roussow. Really good blend for them.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
He has a "clean sweep" against the ABs in 2009 to put in his Daewoo
Bok backrow from 2007 WC win was Smith/Burger/Roussow. Really good blend for them.
He does indeed, but after Juan, Matfield, du Plessis, Botha, Brussow, Smit, du Preez, Fourie, Habana, JdV he may have had some impact on the outcome 😉
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 The engineer who built that stand behind them is an a fair bit of shit as well!!!
Someone as big as Kaino running around slowly probably loosened the foundations
Fixed.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
He has a "clean sweep" against the ABs in 2009 to put in his Daewoo
Bok backrow from 2007 WC win was Smith/Burger/Roussow. Really good blend for them.
He does indeed, but after Juan, Matfield, du Plessis, Botha, Brussow, Smit, du Preez, Fourie, Habana, JdV he may have had some impact on the outcome 😉
You still have him in front of Francois Steyn, Beast Mtawarira JP Pietersen and Morne Steyn
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
He has a "clean sweep" against the ABs in 2009 to put in his Daewoo
Bok backrow from 2007 WC win was Smith/Burger/Roussow. Really good blend for them.
He does indeed, but after Juan, Matfield, du Plessis, Botha, Brussow, Smit, du Preez, Fourie, Habana, JdV he may have had some impact on the outcome 😉
You still have him in front of Francois Steyn, Beast Mtawarira JP Pietersen and Morne Steyn
Come on bro, those are the names I just remembered off the top of my head!
He’s behind all of those except the only player who’s nickname reverberates around South African stadiums when he has made a zero yardage ball carry…
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
He has a "clean sweep" against the ABs in 2009 to put in his Daewoo
Bok backrow from 2007 WC win was Smith/Burger/Roussow. Really good blend for them.
He does indeed, but after Juan, Matfield, du Plessis, Botha, Brussow, Smit, du Preez, Fourie, Habana, JdV he may have had some impact on the outcome 😉
You still have him in front of Francois Steyn, Beast Mtawarira JP Pietersen and Morne Steyn
Come on bro, those are the names I just remembered off the top of my head!
He’s behind all of those except the only player who’s nickname reverberates around South African stadiums when he has made a zero yardage ball carry…
You remembered Spies's name before theirs. Telling
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I might be a bit dumb but I cannot quite see the concern regarding Dalton at 6.
He ís 6' 4" and weighs 113 kg so not a lightweight.
Kaino was 6' 5"and weighed 110 kg
Collins was 6' 3"and weighed 112 kg
Jerry and Jerome were our best two blindsides for many a moon and I know it is how you use your physical attributes in a game as we have seen way too many gifted athletes who disappoint but I reckon Dalton is going to be good.There's no way peak Jerome Kaino was 110kg. We picked him as a lock - you can't have a guy who weighs the same as a decent sized openside flanker locking an AB scrum. As it turned out, you can't even have Jerome.
As above the Jerry, Rodney Richie trio lacked some height and throughout that era our lineout was a bit vulnerable. .
It was still a helluva back row that consistently got the better opposition that included legends like Schalk Burger, @mariner4life's BF, Pierre Spies, Wikus Van Heerden, George Smith, Phil Waugh, among others
If ever there was a player that looked like a Ferrari but played like a Daewoo, that is Spies…
Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane..
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@mariner4life he was incredible. Definitely the best bok blindside since readmission.
Does he start at
76 in my World XV? Depends on whether I can cheat and play pre-knee injury Iceman at blindside, the game isn’t on Sunday, and how I’ve resolved my peak Zinny, Dwayne, Read debate.But damn it’s satisfying that some random kiwi internet strangers rate Juan appropriately.
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@TheMojoman Spies had his uses though. His continued selection forced Duane to round out his game to break into the boks.
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@ACT-Crusader you can’t be serious? Forget Spies for a moment, did you really not rate Mtwarara? Or was the chant annoying?
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Glad tupaea is getting another shot ,
Not saying he is the answer but at 23 he just might be,
I think what I liked is he looks like a genuine 12, not a 13 or a utility playing at 12
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@Smuts said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@TheMojoman Spies had his uses though. His continued selection forced Duane to round out his game to break into the boks.
V.true. I also rated Joe Van Niekerk although I suspect we never saw his best whether it was injury or he didn’t quite fulfil his potential we saw in U21’s etc. Bit like Skinstad.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader PGS looks to me that he's getting pretty close.
I think Akira probably gives away a few cms and kgs. But, he's big enough to meet my prescription at 6.
Blues Captain's Run, 6 June 2017 | Photosport New Zealand
Jerome Kaino and brothers Rieko and Akira Ioane at the Blues captain's run at Eden Park ahead of their match against the British and Irish Lions tomorrow. Eden Park, Auckland, New Zealand. Tuesday 6 June 2017. © Copyright photo: Andrew Cornaga / www.photosport.nz
Pretty much the same size IMO.
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What’s up with Akira? Sore foot or has he been Hansen’d?
Not ideal but given the circumstances the best we have. The Irish are going to hard at our line out and we’ll go hard at their breakdown. Under the roof it will hopefully be a fast game where our small loose trio will hopefully shine.
We have cover on the bench with some big bodies in PGS and Patty so not so worried there. In Patty’s case he may be under done after playing touch rugby in Japan for a season.
AB’s by 10+
Foster said he was pretty much ready to go, but they wanted to get rid of the niggle. Same boat for Nepo and to a lessor extend DH.
Everytime he's talked about 6 he's mentioned Akira and Dalton, so not been Hansen'd just yet. Certainly will have to deliver with SB and Dalton being tried at 6, but that's want we wan; competition within the squad.
