All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Yeah, I suspect that is what is happening and SB will play nice and tight. I like SB, he has a good work ethic, big motor and is a great lineout option. I just prefer specialists in their positions. The "pictures" the coaches constantly talk about are different between positions and expecting players to quickly adapt just doesn't seem to work that well historically.
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@mariner4life Yeah - as a one-off it's fine. Hopefully the plan for the future is Akira, while we develop PGS.
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Hard not to agree with @Tim, that it's pretty concerning to see the number of players from the pack for the 2019 semi still involved (and you KNOW Moody and Nepo would be starting if they were fit). Especially when you recall that we got bullied pretty badly, and that most of our guys will have got older rather than better.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
we've been trying to play with structure?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
we've been trying to play with structure?
yes. flat off 9 or flat off 10.
passes to groups of flat players meaning shit cleans.
wait for counter attack.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
Exactly, if we have a new pattern that wants two big bodies spread across three zones (e.g., Prop, lock; Prop, lock; Hooker, lock) with two of those on the edges being a bit more mobile, then I can see how this might fly:
For example, Edge 1 = Taylor, Retallick; Middle = Bower, Whitelock; Edge 2 = Ofa; Barrett.
But, that could/should indicate some change in pattern/pods. If so, what would be the change?
we've been trying to play with structure?
yes. flat off 9 or flat off 10.
passes to groups of flat players meaning shit cleans.
wait for counter attack.
I wonder if we are thinking to change up from the 2-3-2-1 and the pod with the flat pass, to something new.
Or, maybe the red box and 2nd '2' is too light and they want a bigger body there?
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as with everything, the "how" of any "setup" is far less important than the "why".
Why are we spread across the field? who or what are we trying to isolate? Phases without purpose are useless.
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@mariner4life god i hope thats why theyve picked SB, more phases in tight to draw in some of the rush defenders before going wide quick
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@mariner4life cos they'd look silly if they were all lined up in a conga-line!
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
as with everything, the "how" of any "setup" is far less important than the "why".
Why are we spread across the field? who or what are we trying to isolate? Phases without purpose are useless.
If we move back towards a 1-3-3-1 or a pattern with bigger bodies in the middle, we could be trying to be less about going wide and more about going through them? That seems the way to breakdown the rush, so wha pattern would fit to do that? A tight six could be the right set of people, but I wonder about how they plan to do that.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
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Something I noticed in the Māori game was the Irish were very reluctant to put too many bodies in the ruck, I'm assuming to get the D line full of bodies. They were also good at slowing down the ball at the base of the ruck.
I think the Māori did it once and is happening more in SR is instead of jackling is putting players into the ruck for a counter ruck. If we play tight and commit players to the ruck then the Irish will be forced to counter this which may open up space.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
right now fozzie deliberately trying to troll the fern makes as much sense as anything else
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
right now fozzie deliberately trying to troll the fern makes as much sense as anything else
I now suspect the guy recently banned was Foster, the ultimate pay back
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Something I noticed in the Māori game was the Irish were very reluctant to put too many bodies in the ruck, I'm assuming to get the D line full of bodies. They were also good at slowing down the ball at the base of the ruck.
I think the Māori did it once and is happening more in SR is instead of jackling is putting players into the ruck for a counter ruck. If we play tight and commit players to the ruck then the Irish will be forced to counter this which may open up space.
I think lots of countries have worked that out, we're obsessed with fast ball so they "give" it to use at the first or second ruck looking to isolate the 3rd and 4th phase ball, we think we're stretching them but theyre standing out there waiting for us
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
meanwhile the fern loses it lol
thats the best bit!
right now fozzie deliberately trying to troll the fern makes as much sense as anything else
I now suspect the guy recently banned was Foster, the ultimate pay back
Mods did say they traced the IP address or something...to NZR headquarters i wonder?
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
