Highlanders 2023
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@Chris yeah, cant see another way to do it sustainably, not going to lure pre made world class players whilst bottom of the table but cant get off the bottom without them...so we have to grow them
its always a worry though that IF we do manage to grow some....that they wont be lured away by other teams
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Who is your Highlander of the year?
Vote below for who you think deserves the fan's player of the year for 2023 and go in the draw to win a signed home jersey!
I went with renton, on paper was a clear second behind MMT of Frizell but has hugely taken the opportunity to step up
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Half the players you have mentioned are highly average - that is part of the issue.
They are the kind of players you can build on and rely on and get a lot more out of it you point them in the right direction - dollars to donuts Rennie or similar would've got us twice as many wins this season.
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@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
- Hunt is off-contract, hard to see a world where we re-sign him... they'd be an uproar!
Much as you guys don't like Mitch - and he's got some limitations - you've got to find three first fives that are better than him. They might well not want him as their number one option, but I wouldn't be rushing to sack him if I were the Highlanders.
Well yeah, but who isn't as good? Tasesa Lavea can walk out there and shit the bed and look like a half decent game from Hunt. That's where we're at - I'm more than happy to have a kid out there getting better from a low point, than Hunt out there getting worse from a low point.
I'd also play any back or loosie at 13, ahead of Paea. Friz would go ten times better there.
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@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
- Hunt is off-contract, hard to see a world where we re-sign him... they'd be an uproar!
Much as you guys don't like Mitch - and he's got some limitations - you've got to find three first fives that are better than him. They might well not want him as their number one option, but I wouldn't be rushing to sack him if I were the Highlanders.
Sometimes a clean break is just better though... Hunt is one of many players who is attached to the losing culture of the team, so getting him out and starting afresh I think is a better option.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
is paea only there because we know he's still under contract?
Unsure... the coaches seem to like him, and I think he is fine as a squad option.
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@African-Monkey said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Yeah - you've got to be careful what you wish for.
The Blues fans are moaning about Beaudy and want him ousted, the Canes fans think Morgan isn't up to it, I've got some pretty large reservations about a future with Fergus holding the reins at the Crusaders.
Hard to think Mitch isn't among the top 17 first fives in NZ (with RM and BB heading off). I wouldn't mind him back at the Crusaders (with Ferg and Kemara) if you do sack him.
Maybe he does go well if he ever went back to the Crusaders but he clearly isn't the right fit at the Highlanders so you can't really compare the 2.
I don't think it's about fit - I thin it's about talent.
There's probably a bunch of Super rugby second-stringers who would do not much better or much worse than Mitch at the Highlanders. If the best you can do is sign one of them, then it's deckchairs on the Titanic.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris yeah, cant see another way to do it sustainably, not going to lure pre made world class players whilst bottom of the table but cant get off the bottom without them...so we have to grow them
its always a worry though that IF we do manage to grow some....that they wont be lured away by other teams
Very little luring actually occurs in Super Rugby. It isn't very often an established All Black switches franchises... eventually, something will give, and someone like Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, Lam, etc. will end up at the Highlanders, because the majority of these guys know that you need to actually play week in week to crack the ABs.
It has been a weird old time with recruitment, and I'm sure COVID has made it tougher to lure these guys away from their family.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2023:
Vote below for who you think deserves the fan's player of the year for 2023 and go in the draw to win a signed home jersey!
I went with renton, on paper was a clear second behind MMT of Frizell but has hugely taken the opportunity to step up
Has to be de Groot or Ainsley for me... Renton is probably third, though Harmon right in the mix.
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Half the players you have mentioned are highly average - that is part of the issue.
They are the kind of players you can build on and rely on and get a lot more out of it you point them in the right direction - dollars to donuts Rennie or similar would've got us twice as many wins this season.
The same players who have failed under three different coaches? At some point you have to look at the players. Are they handy? Some of them sure, but those players I mentioned as average aren't starters in a title winning team. As good as Hugh Renton has been, he hasn't been better than Sotutu, Savea or Jacobson has he? And I'm still not convinced MMT has done anything to be shelved the way he has. You watch Frizell the past couple of weeks, it is effortless carries, but he stays on his feet and keeps it alive in the tackle. Without seeing the stats, I reckon a stat measuring a ratio of offload per carry would be very low for Renton.
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@Chris said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
I wouldn't mind him back at the Crusaders (with Ferg and Kemara) if you do sack him.
This bit worries me,I like what the little I have seen of Kemera.
I am pretty comfortable with Burke at 10 When Ritchie was taking his 4 game rest last season Fergus did a really good job.
His time at FB will help as a First Five you see what is in front of you back there.Mitch was great for us off the bench,in hind sight would not mind him off the bench to cover the other 2 behind our forward pack.
we will lose a MF with experience as well as Ritchie and Mitch has SR experience it may help.We are going to have a significant drop-off from Richie next year. If Mitch stays in NZ, I reckon the Highlanders will grab him if they can - but, otherwise, he could play a role like Mike Delany did for us a few years back - experienced head from the bench or to bank points vs weaker teams.
The alternative - which I also don't mind - is to sign another young guy and run things a bit the way we did in 2016, when we had Mo'unga, Volavola and Marty McKenzie - none of whom were established, and any of whom had a chance to grab the reins (though Ferg obviously has the inside track in 2024).
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@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@African-Monkey said in Highlanders 2023:
@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@Kiwiwomble Yeah - you've got to be careful what you wish for.
The Blues fans are moaning about Beaudy and want him ousted, the Canes fans think Morgan isn't up to it, I've got some pretty large reservations about a future with Fergus holding the reins at the Crusaders.
Hard to think Mitch isn't among the top 17 first fives in NZ (with RM and BB heading off). I wouldn't mind him back at the Crusaders (with Ferg and Kemara) if you do sack him.
Maybe he does go well if he ever went back to the Crusaders but he clearly isn't the right fit at the Highlanders so you can't really compare the 2.
I don't think it's about fit - I thin it's about talent.
There's probably a bunch of Super rugby second-stringers who would do not much better or much worse than Mitch at the Highlanders. If the best you can do is sign one of them, then it's deckchairs on the Titanic.
I think people have an over-inflated sense of how good Hunt is, because of a few key moments (The drop goal being one). The Crusaders win rate when he started was markedly below that of Mo'unga. He doesn't have the running game to make up for his poor kicking game, and all of the problems in my opinion relate back to the fact he is just too small.
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@friedrugby you have him starting! get him to drive gregory and hunt to the airport and then lock the door behind him
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@friedrugby Can't disagree on Mitch's size - it's a drawback - on defence and when he gets caught.
Mitch is one of my Mako boys - so I've seen plenty of him and I think I've got a pretty realistic view of his capabilities.
Ideally, you don't want him as your starting first five in Super rugby - but, I think you will struggle mightily to sign three first fives who are better next year.
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@Chris-B he didn;t play last year due to injury did he? so he hasn't has a decent run for the mako since 2021? its the last 2 seasons that his form has dropped so much, 2020/2021 he was carving up quite a bit at 15 behind Ioane...and as we keep being reminded there is a big difference between NPC and super
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@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
@Bones said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby said in Highlanders 2023:
Half the players you have mentioned are highly average - that is part of the issue.
They are the kind of players you can build on and rely on and get a lot more out of it you point them in the right direction - dollars to donuts Rennie or similar would've got us twice as many wins this season.
The same players who have failed under three different coaches? At some point you have to look at the players. Are they handy? Some of them sure, but those players I mentioned as average aren't starters in a title winning team. As good as Hugh Renton has been, he hasn't been better than Sotutu, Savea or Jacobson has he? And I'm still not convinced MMT has done anything to be shelved the way he has. You watch Frizell the past couple of weeks, it is effortless carries, but he stays on his feet and keeps it alive in the tackle. Without seeing the stats, I reckon a stat measuring a ratio of offload per carry would be very low for Renton.
All those players have had regular appearances under 3 coaches?
I can't see how we're going to agree when you point out that Frizzel playing well at lock, while supported by a loose trio playing well is evidence that Frizzel is a great loosie, despite having zero impact there earlier in the season.
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@Kiwiwomble Don't think so. We mainly had Willy Havili - another Super first five.
We did have our worst season in a decade....
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@Chris-B said in Highlanders 2023:
@friedrugby Can't disagree on Mitch's size - it's a drawback - on defence and when he gets caught.
Mitch is one of my Mako boys - so I've seen plenty of him and I think I've got a pretty realistic view of his capabilities.
Ideally, you don't want him as your starting first five in Super rugby - but, I think you will struggle mightily to sign three first fives who are better next year.
Sure, but in effect he has been the Landers 2nd choice 10 this year, and he has been dreadful.
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