Chiefs vs Crusaders
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This Saders aren’t very good revisionism here is fascinating.
They have a squad with the second to fewest rookies, surrounded by the spine of the AB team (12 current ABs) plus an Argie import and a bunch of past ABs.
Thankfully they’ve got Razor to motivate this young and inexperienced group.
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@gt12 said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
This Saders aren’t very good revisionism here is fascinating.
They have a squad with the second to fewest rookies, surrounded by the spine of the AB team (12 current ABs) plus an Argie import and a bunch of past ABs.
Most of those All Blacks are either far past it (Whitelock, Moody, Taylor etc..) or were limited players to begin with selected by clueless Fozzie because they played for the winningest team in Super Rugby with the best systems & culture, same thing often happens with Brumbies players & Australia. Grace, Ennor, Havili, Bridge etc.. are all ok players at the fundamentals but aren't anywhere near deserving All Black selection. Others like Blackadder, S.Barrett are quite similar in that they offer mostly 'workrate' as their defining attributes but don't actually offer any point of difference as players (they are good 'system' players - who's contributions become more meaningful (& greater than sum of their parts) with resourceful & inventive coaching, but not under clueless Foster at international level where players must have a genuine Point Of Difference to offer as individuals, which Foster bizarrely somehow expects from these limited players... talk about putting square pegs in round holes. The Chiefs & Blues forwards have Power, Dynamism, X-factor and Point of Difference in spades, while the only current Crusaders squad forward who could be labelled an outrageous athlete or prestigious talent is Taimati Williams. There are lots of 15 test journeyman & fringe All Black selection 'squad filler' in the Crusaders, almost all of them are very limited in what they can offer to the All Blacks (and in most cases) there are far superior players elsewhere (often within Chiefs/Blues, or Canes squads) to choose from - most on here would agree with that.
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@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@gt12 said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
This Saders aren’t very good revisionism here is fascinating.
They have a squad with the second to fewest rookies, surrounded by the spine of the AB team (12 current ABs) plus an Argie import and a bunch of past ABs.
Most of those All Blacks are either far past it (Whitelock, Moody, Taylor etc..) or were limited players to begin with selected by clueless Fozzie because they played for the winningest team in Super Rugby with the best systems & culture, same thing often happens with Brumbies players & Australia. Grace, Ennor, Havili, Bridge etc.. are all ok players at the fundamentals but aren't anywhere near deserving All Black selection. Others like Blackadder, S.Barrett are quite similar in that they offer mostly 'workrate' as their defining attributes but don't actually offer any point of difference as players (they are good 'system' players - who's contributions become more meaningful (& greater than sum of their parts) with resourceful & inventive coaching, but not under clueless Foster at international level where players must have a genuine Point Of Difference to offer as individuals, which Foster bizarrely somehow expects from these limited players... talk about putting square pegs in round holes. The Chiefs & Blues forwards have Power, Dynamism, X-factor and Point of Difference in spades, while the only current Crusaders squad forward who could be labelled an outrageous athlete or prestigious talent is Taimati Williams. There are lots of 15 test journeyman & fringe All Black selection 'squad filler' in the Crusaders, almost all of them are very limited in what they can offer to the All Blacks (and in most cases) there are far superior players elsewhere (often within Chiefs/Blues, or Canes squads) to choose from - most on here would agree with that.
Wow. You're gonna need a couple of packs of baby wipes to clean up all the shit that just spilled out of you. You've made me feel very lucky that we've somehow burgled five titles in a row with a pretty poor, quite boring squad.
It's not hard to form a clear picture of how you view players and what leads you to believe a player is real All Black quality, and it's pretty similar to how I looked at rugby as a 10 year old, too.
Based on your interpretation, it's a wonder we went back to back in 2011 and 2015 carrying such yeomen forwards as Franks, Woodcock, Moody, Whitelock, Thorn and McCaw, and backs like Ellis, Donald and a couple of blokes wider out named Smith. Not enough power, dynamism and X factor there.
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Interesting game this, but it's a shame both teams have been disrupted by Covid. This game had the potential to show us whether there has been a shift in the balance of power away from the Saders (which I suspect there has been) but there will be a question mark because of Covid.
I am picking the Chiefs for the win.
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@crazy-horse said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Interesting game this, but it's a shame both teams have been disrupted by Covid. This game had the potential to show us whether there has been a shift in the balance of power away from the Saders (which I suspect there has been) but there will be a question mark because of Covid.
I am picking the Chiefs for the win.
As said earlier I reckon this game will be great to watch almost because of the changes. No real weakpoints from fill in players or shuffles so it puts a lot of attention on to being a battle of the coaches and leaders. Who can gel a slightly makeshift side the best. Who can come up with the best Plan B. That sort of stuff.
McMillan is the up and comer in the coaching ranks and looks to have a bit of FAB coach about him. Razor, of course, has already earned that moniker through results.
Should be a close one anyway. -
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crazy-horse said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
Interesting game this, but it's a shame both teams have been disrupted by Covid. This game had the potential to show us whether there has been a shift in the balance of power away from the Saders (which I suspect there has been) but there will be a question mark because of Covid.
I am picking the Chiefs for the win.
As said earlier I reckon this game will be great to watch almost because of the changes. No real weakpoints from fill in players or shuffles so it puts a lot of attention on to being a battle of the coaches and leaders. Who can gel a slightly makeshift side the best. Who can come up with the best Plan B. That sort of stuff.
McMillan is the up and comer in the coaching ranks and looks to have a bit of FAB coach about him. Razor, of course, has already earned that moniker through results.
Should be a close one anyway.We also don't know about the energy levels of the players who are fronting up. If some of them have had Covid they could struggle.
Do we know who in the squads had Covid verses those who were/are close contacts?
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@shark don't get sucked in dude
this is "narrative". His mancrush Scotty R is the bestest coach ever who wins every year with shit players because he is just so innovative and systemy and culturish. Thus you get posts like that. Over. And Over. Again.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@shark don't get sucked in dude
this is "narrative". His mancrush Scotty R is the bestest coach ever who wins every year with shit players because he is just so innovative and systemy and culturish. Thus you get posts like that. Over. And Over. Again.
my bad. Is he on the wind-up or genuinely batshit fucking nuts?
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@shark said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@shark don't get sucked in dude
this is "narrative". His mancrush Scotty R is the bestest coach ever who wins every year with shit players because he is just so innovative and systemy and culturish. Thus you get posts like that. Over. And Over. Again.
my bad. Is he on the wind-up or genuinely batshit fucking nuts?
tough to say, the lines get very blurred
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@shark said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@shark don't get sucked in dude
this is "narrative". His mancrush Scotty R is the bestest coach ever who wins every year with shit players because he is just so innovative and systemy and culturish. Thus you get posts like that. Over. And Over. Again.
my bad. Is he on the wind-up or genuinely batshit fucking nuts?
If we get pumped this weekend, I would have to assume the latter.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@shark said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@shark don't get sucked in dude
this is "narrative". His mancrush Scotty R is the bestest coach ever who wins every year with shit players because he is just so innovative and systemy and culturish. Thus you get posts like that. Over. And Over. Again.
my bad. Is he on the wind-up or genuinely batshit fucking nuts?
tough to say, the lines get very blurred
Yep suspect he posts on anther forum under a different nic, a few wonder if some kids have got his log in details because of the content of some of his posts.
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I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
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@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
Your opinion is shot when you have Slater better than anyone.
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@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
Your opinion is shot when you have Slater better than anyone.
Did you watch their contributions for Taranaki and Canterbury across the past few NPC seasons? Ask Neil Barnes about Slater's influence, meanwhile Klein was & forever has been anonymous for Canterbury since he started.
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@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
Your opinion is shot when you have Slater better than anyone.
Did you watch their contributions for Taranaki and Canterbury across the past few NPC seasons? Ask Neil Barnes about Slater's influence, meanwhile Klein was & forever has been anonymous for Canterbury since he started.
I'd rather anonymous than in the highlights for overthrown and lost lineouts.
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it's testament to just how shit the Chiefs really are that, with an overwhelmingly better squad they needed to score in injury time to beat that Crusaders rubbish.
Obviously shit systems
Also, this is my favourite part
George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
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@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
Your opinion is shot when you have Slater better than anyone.
Did you watch their contributions for Taranaki and Canterbury across the past few NPC seasons? Ask Neil Barnes about Slater's influence, meanwhile Klein was & forever has been anonymous for Canterbury since he started.
I'm going to say that Klein might have played 20 games, and many off the bench. Hardly a body of work worthy of that sort of insightful comment.
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@shark said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
Your opinion is shot when you have Slater better than anyone.
Did you watch their contributions for Taranaki and Canterbury across the past few NPC seasons? Ask Neil Barnes about Slater's influence, meanwhile Klein was & forever has been anonymous for Canterbury since he started.
I'm going to say that Klein might have played 20 games, and many off the bench. Hardly a body of work worthy of that sort of insightful comment.
Klein
Lucky to have played 20 when McAlister was fit.
I would say mostly cameos 10 or 15 min off the bench in his first year which I think was the 2019 season When he was just 20. -
@crucial said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Chiefs vs Crusaders:
I've been looking over the Chiefs side that pipped Crusaders at the death two weeks earlier:
As of current ability, form & age (Ross > Moody), Taylor < Taukei'aho, Newell < Ta'avao, Strange < Vaa'i, Retallick = Whitelock, Boshier < Blackadder, Cane > Christie, Matera < Gus Sowakula, Roe > Drummond, Gatland < Mo'unga, Nanai-Seturo < Fainga'anuku, Tupaea > Havili, Lienert-Brown > Ennor, Stevenson < Reece, Narawa < Jordan.
Replacements: Bradley Slater > Shilo Klein, Ollie Norris > Abraham Pole, George Dyer > journeyman Bower.
Naitoa Ah Kuoi > Dom Gardiner, Tom Florence < Cullen Grace, Bryn Hall < Cortez Ratima, Fergus Burke < Rameka Poihipi, George Bridge < Rivez Reihana.
My opinion is that in total 16/23 of that Chiefs team are superior players than their Crusader opposites.
Your opinion is shot when you have Slater better than anyone.
Have to say Crucial, I reckon Slater is a better hooker than you giving him credit for, well I personally reckon he not bad. He's not a test player or anything, but he not bad.
