6N England v Ireland
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@bones I did wonder what had happened to Slade and was sure that it wasn’t even looked at or even mentioned on the tvcoverage.
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@catogrande said in 6N England v Ireland:
@bones I did wonder what had happened to Slade and was sure that it wasn’t even looked at or even mentioned on the tvcoverage.
It was really blatant I thought - I mentioned it at the time (Slade should have gone for an HIA really).
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Oh and I thought that as good a job he can do in the back row, Courtney Lawes showed what a bloody good lock he is. Him, Itoje and Launchbury as the squad donkeys would look very good to me and allow us to pick two genuine flankers in the squad.
Picking players in their best positions, a novel idea but it might catch on.
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@catogrande I think he's your best lock. Has he got a kiwi grandmother? He'd still be good enough in 3 years.
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@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
Edit: consistency would go a long way to helping officials.
welcome to my bandwagon
The joy of rugby is the dynamic nature, but it makes it incredibly hard to ref well. A lot of RC incidents get 'play on' in real time, which I always struggle with. That said, there should be a lot more conistency on timing/entry/activity in the ruck areas from week to week (or even within a game)
World Rugby has made their bed with cards, they need to sort this out. 20 min Reds seem sensible to me, to avoid games being destroyed. Probably too sensible though. Also: does anyone have stats on RC rates? Much higher now it feels - multiple per season compared to the past
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@nzzp well yeah but this happened on the ball right in front of the ref, soon after he'd given a red. Why was it not even looked at? Because Slade got so flattened that they thought it was a Hollywood? Still worth a look. There was also a clean out prior to that, was a bit more obscure but direct to Curry's head...if we're looking we're looking right? Not just because there's an injury time out.
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I think we still need a full red card sanction for utter shithousery but something a bit more than the current yellow for stuff that is detrimental to player welfare but is accidental, what would have be just been a rugby incident not so long ago.
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@majorrage said in 6N England v Ireland:
It’s easy to sit there and say correct law application, his own fault etc.
But if Brodie had been RCd for that 82 secs into a Bokke test I’d be fucking livid.
The only bit I'm not fine with is that it wasn't Sookston
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@catogrande keep the full rc for punch, kick, knee etc, but these ones deserve either a new colour card or the 20 min one where a team can send on a replacement.
Is amazing though that some (on social media) see that option as opening the game up to coaches/players using it for a moment of thuggery, consequences be damned 🤦
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@catogrande said in 6N England v Ireland:
I think we still need a full red card sanction for utter shithousery but something a bit more than the current yellow for stuff that is detrimental to player welfare but is accidental, what would have be just been a rugby incident not so long ago.
like, say, a 20 min player reduction and the player can't return?
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@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
@nzzp well yeah but this happened on the ball right in front of the ref, soon after he'd given a red. Why was it not even looked at?
Because rugby is tough to referee. Slow motion makes things look much worse than they are. And accidental contacts/rugby incidents are now being treated the same as shitty actions or poor technique.
If you want to change behaviour, you have to re-weight risk and reward. Right now, the reward for staying high-ish is that you may get a dominant tackle, and occasionally get a card of some form. Players should expect that if they go high they will get penalised for sure, every time. That will change the behaviour quickly, or wreck the game (remember the 'mucks' in the ELV?)
Right now, I can understand why players go for dominant tackles. Law makers are fiddling around the edges, as it's the heart of a physical contest, and taking collision away fundamentally alters the sport. To really effect change, you'll probably have to reset the tackle/post tackle/offload/ball placement/ruck formation situation, and fundamentally change what players need to do there. But it won't be rugby as we know it, it'll be a variant on it.
Gnarly issues; NRL solved this by putting players on report, with cards incredibly rare. I wonder if a straight 10-20 minute yellow + don't come back for most offences is the shot, and leave straight reds for the intentional.
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@mikethesnow said in 6N England v Ireland:
It's high time that coaches and captains in their post-match interviews stopped blaming the officials and started acknowledging that one of their player's indiscretions - regardless of intent - gave the match officials, including the TMO, no other option but to send the player from the field.
James Ryan is 2.03m tall
Ewels had a legal target area of approx. 1.6m
This is a coaching issue.
What's forgotten in incidents like this is James Ryan's match was over after 82 secs.
Quite possibly he'll be out next weekend too.
Plenty of these types of vids floating around YouTube this morning
Sexton, who has form for being a cheap bastard, gets away scot-free based on this footage. Would like to have seen a close-up.
Could easily have been two reds in the same passage of play.
The thing about the red is was Ewels actually trying to effect a tackle?
Ryan had already passed and was continuing his run as a blocker.
For me it looked as though Ewels was trying to absorb the momentum of Ryan running into him, rather than trying to take Ryan down.
Flip side Ryan running into Ewels to take him out of defensive line.
I'd say clumsy on both parts.
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@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
@nzzp I'm not talking about obscure hits, if I can see them real time then surely one of four officials can too. Raynal set the bar and failed to follow through. Maybe refs need to be held to the same scrutiny they set out.
I agree, pickign up all the dodge would reduce it significantly.
But remember - obvious on TV, and obvious on the field with bodies around and multiple things to look at is way, way harder.
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@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
@nzzp I'm not talking about obscure hits, if I can see them real time then surely one of four officials can too. Raynal set the bar and failed to follow through. Maybe refs need to be held to the same scrutiny they set out.
Jonker was definitely selective in bringing these incidents to Raynal's attention.
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@bovidae said in 6N England v Ireland:
@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
@nzzp I'm not talking about obscure hits, if I can see them real time then surely one of four officials can too. Raynal set the bar and failed to follow through. Maybe refs need to be held to the same scrutiny they set out.
Jonker was definitely selective in bringing these incidents to Raynal's attention.
that, and host broadcasters being suuuuper choosy about which ones to replay over and over and over make a difference. And it shouldn't, it damages the game and ultimately both teams.
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@nzzp said in 6N England v Ireland:
@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
@nzzp I'm not talking about obscure hits, if I can see them real time then surely one of four officials can too. Raynal set the bar and failed to follow through. Maybe refs need to be held to the same scrutiny they set out.
I agree, pickign up all the dodge would reduce it significantly.
But remember - obvious on TV, and obvious on the field with bodies around and multiple things to look at is way, way harder.
What's that T part in TMO again? 😁
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@nzzp said in 6N England v Ireland:
@bovidae said in 6N England v Ireland:
@bones said in 6N England v Ireland:
@nzzp I'm not talking about obscure hits, if I can see them real time then surely one of four officials can too. Raynal set the bar and failed to follow through. Maybe refs need to be held to the same scrutiny they set out.
Jonker was definitely selective in bringing these incidents to Raynal's attention.
that, and host broadcasters being suuuuper choosy about which ones to replay over and over and over make a difference. And it shouldn't, it damages the game and ultimately both teams.
It was an England home game...
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@billy-tell said in 6N England v Ireland:
Can’t take a video seriously with that soundtrack.
Haven't watched it with the audio, but if it's Miles Harrison, yeah, it'd be hard to take seriously
