All Blacks 2022
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
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@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
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@canefan If I have a criticism of Schmidt it is that his Irish teams were too structured, so there needs to be a balance. As @taniwharugby says, the Blues are the blueprint of how the ABs can play to maximise the ability of the players, while not sacrificing physicality.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
I thought Schmidt's biggest contribution to Ireland was a harder work ethic and belief more than any particular style or tactic. That has come after him.
France are currently blessed with some generational talent and a coach/team that are happy to build around that.
Schmidt will certainly bring some insight into methods and the plans being used to nullify the AB way. We need to counter those plans without allowing time for a counter-counter.
This is where the RWC disrupts the normal 'every game counts' edict. There is so much analysis and planning these days that if you have anything new you need to hold on to it and practice it in increments.
You can bet your bottom dollar that Eddie Jones is banking on a surprise. That's his style. Given that his side of the draw doesn't need to do much until the semis he's a good shot of making a final again. This time he will be trying to find a two game plan instead of the one game one.
We will likely play either SA or Ireland in the quarters. Two very good teams will leave the tournament in the quarters this time such are the pools.
I dont think it matters too much which of those two we play so we don't need to show our hand against France in our pool. Funny thing is that France will think the same. -
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
Henry used this tactic during the mid 2000's using Jerry as a distributor in the midfield and it worked really well.
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@nzzp the skills and form Sotutu has shown the past month or so should really be giving the coaches thoughts about whether they start Ardie at 8 or not, but we know, he and Cane are penciled in at 8/7 respectively.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
They are almost a package deal on the bench
Sotutu is difficult to have on the bench because he only plays 8. So he covers 8 and Ardie can shift across to cover 7. However, to effectively cover 6 you really need a lock/loosie
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
Yep but he on Blues coaching staff, with ABs he's a selector.
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I’d like them to pick a team that can play to a plan, rather than the supposed ‘best’ players.
Ardie is a weapon off the bench, but we’d be better served with Sotutu starting alongside Akira, to take advantage of a similar open field running game, but better line out and distribution.
One potential issue for me is that we need the third running threat - the Blues lose something at scrum time with Robinson at lock, but they get his work rate on both sides of the ball. If BBBR cant bring that game again, its time for him to be a squaddie (I think he’ll probably be ok).
I’m interested to see Lord get some opportunities to play the Whitelock role alongside the top team. I’d be swapping in one of them in test 2 & 3 to see him and Vaii alongside the other ‘premier’ lock.
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@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp the skills and form Sotutu has shown the past month or so should really be giving the coaches thoughts about whether they start Ardie at 8 or not, but we know, he and Cane are penciled in at 8/7 respectively.
I don't know. Ardie really is a hard one. We all know that his selection causes imbalances in the loosies but he is an extremely talented and tenacious player that has the respect of others. We wish others had his skills but he really isn't a pure 6, 7 or 8.
We haven't seen them try him on the bench enough IMO. Maybe it's because they couldn't last year the way things panned out with him having to fill in as captain.
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition. -
In a personal thing I would be very keen to see Ardie used of the bench, I will also acknowledge I would need him in squad somewhere, just like the idea of him against tiring defences etc, but he needs to be there somewhere.
And I will also say that is only if I had the brains to be a selector and coach of anything above club rugby which is all I got too, so won't argue too much if they see him as a starter. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
its scary to think the AB's coaches might not have picked up on something thats been common for +15 years, 16-23 are their own positions...not just cover if someone gets injured
clubs dont always have the luxury but international teams can literally pick who they want, there are several guys that never looked as good starting as they did coming off the bench...but thats ok
edit: the best example i have as a former hooker and highlander fan, when we had Dixon and Coltman...Dixon was the "better" hooker...but, i prefered when we started with coltman, did more running and was a little younger, let him take some hits and wear them out....and then bring on the better lineout thrower and the "cooler head" to close out the game, less errors and suddenly our lineout/drive becomes a weapon....but thats the opposite of "starting the best"
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I think we only need to look at what Schmidt did with Ireland, I am sure nearly every game we lost the Fern would have had very few Irish in a combined 23 yet they were able to disrupt and beat us. Schmidt showed that 23 players playing with structure and a plan can beat 23 players who arguably have a lot more talent.
The key for the AB's as mentioned is merging the AB's talent with the structure and discipline of the NH sides.
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@Kiwiwomble Who do you think are the best 16-23 in the squad? Fakatava, Ardie, PGS, spring to mind.
ST would be amazing but I want him starting so I guess Coles will have the better impact than Taylor. Ofa T is one of the better ball carrying props. Perhaps Mounga as 10 cover but to be fair I dont really want BB or JB moving from their better positions so perhaps Perofeta is better. Thoughts?
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@chimoaus im never good at actually making lists....always forget someone
but you can see what those guys would bring against a tiring less structured opposition....you can imagine the breaks that would be made around the breakdown....and god forbid if we actually trained for it and so whoever is 14 and 15 in the final 20-30 knew to be hunting in behind the breakdown
