All Blacks 2022
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
re: the locks
one of the positions i care about.
I am far more wary of this supposed "next level" that Scott Barrett, a 6-year All Black, is suddenly going to find. Perfectly adequate player, but not a point of difference, and should be easily upgraded on. Good man to have in the squad though, as he'll do a job. Does try a bit hard to be something he is not though, hence the fucking idiotic cards.
The veterans aren't that old, but have huge miles on the clock. And because they have been so fucking good, it's sort of landed us where we are. Both get a huge workload in terms of minutes, and what we expect them to do. And we have never built depth because no one could get a look in.
If i was coaching (and lets be thankful that i am not) i would be rotating through them. Vaa'i is their obvious choice of the youngsters, so he would get lots of minutes next to one of Retallick and Whitelock. Barrett on the bench as a safety option. And i would be giving them very fucking specific roles too (clean rucks you old fucks). It involves coaching and man management, but it's necessary. Because it would be very easy to cruise through another year running them in to the ground, playing huge minutes and getting them to do everything. And we are in the same spot in 12 months, except it's now riskier.
It is not just their ages that are a concern, as you correctly pointed out, but mileage. I think, with exceptions, the shelf life of a rugby player is shorter now considering the increased physical nature of the game and shear number of games. Especially in the forwards. Injuries are usually a tell tale sign of wear and tear.
Sometimes even I have to acknowledge when @mariner4life talks sense (or possibly it just appears that way in contrast to the last couple of pages of nonsense by another poster)
I think we need to talk sensibly about BBBR though. Yep he doesn't have that long to go and he says that himself. However, I don't think he can be fairly judged on last year.
We know his body needed a break He dropped some kgs and went to Japan for some retirement money and a 'rest'. When he returned he also took a mental break just chilling with family before lacing up again.
I think it was only the need for an extended squad that actually had him playing last year. He was clearly a bit light and not firing. This year has been a different story. One of interruption with a broken finger. I'm not sure how that can be attributed to age. Once he got that big diesel engine going again though he was awesome and all the things we want. Smashing people in and around rucks, driving strongly in mauls carrying over the gain line.
I don't disagree that we can't and shouldn't expect the two 'veterans' to carry us through but I also see that they both hold value and discarding them would be a mistake.
SB is solid and Vai'i and Lord need to be grown into the jerseys.
Even if Whitelock has one good game left in him, I think we can be sure that he will bring it when needed.my only concern is can he keep that engine going strong for another 18 months....or are we going to get into next year and he'll be back to fumes and we'll be scrambling around looking for a RWC replacement...should we have bitten the bullet and committed the next 18 months to getting one of the young guys up to speed
dont know what the right call is..time will tell
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
re: the locks
one of the positions i care about.
I am far more wary of this supposed "next level" that Scott Barrett, a 6-year All Black, is suddenly going to find. Perfectly adequate player, but not a point of difference, and should be easily upgraded on. Good man to have in the squad though, as he'll do a job. Does try a bit hard to be something he is not though, hence the fucking idiotic cards.
The veterans aren't that old, but have huge miles on the clock. And because they have been so fucking good, it's sort of landed us where we are. Both get a huge workload in terms of minutes, and what we expect them to do. And we have never built depth because no one could get a look in.
If i was coaching (and lets be thankful that i am not) i would be rotating through them. Vaa'i is their obvious choice of the youngsters, so he would get lots of minutes next to one of Retallick and Whitelock. Barrett on the bench as a safety option. And i would be giving them very fucking specific roles too (clean rucks you old fucks). It involves coaching and man management, but it's necessary. Because it would be very easy to cruise through another year running them in to the ground, playing huge minutes and getting them to do everything. And we are in the same spot in 12 months, except it's now riskier.
It is not just their ages that are a concern, as you correctly pointed out, but mileage. I think, with exceptions, the shelf life of a rugby player is shorter now considering the increased physical nature of the game and shear number of games. Especially in the forwards. Injuries are usually a tell tale sign of wear and tear.
Sometimes even I have to acknowledge when @mariner4life talks sense (or possibly it just appears that way in contrast to the last couple of pages of nonsense by another poster)
I think we need to talk sensibly about BBBR though. Yep he doesn't have that long to go and he says that himself. However, I don't think he can be fairly judged on last year.
We know his body needed a break He dropped some kgs and went to Japan for some retirement money and a 'rest'. When he returned he also took a mental break just chilling with family before lacing up again.
I think it was only the need for an extended squad that actually had him playing last year. He was clearly a bit light and not firing. This year has been a different story. One of interruption with a broken finger. I'm not sure how that can be attributed to age. Once he got that big diesel engine going again though he was awesome and all the things we want. Smashing people in and around rucks, driving strongly in mauls carrying over the gain line.
I don't disagree that we can't and shouldn't expect the two 'veterans' to carry us through but I also see that they both hold value and discarding them would be a mistake.
SB is solid and Vai'i and Lord need to be grown into the jerseys.
Even if Whitelock has one good game left in him, I think we can be sure that he will bring it when needed.my only concern is can he keep that engine going strong for another 18 months....or are we going to get into next year and he'll be back to fumes and we'll be scrambling around looking for a RWC replacement...should we have bitten the bullet and committed the next 18 months to getting one of the young guys up to speed
dont know what the right call is..time will tell
But isn't that what is happening? Or at least what could be happening but we don't know yet? I can see BBBR and Whitelock being benched regularly to give others a start and/or playing 40 minutes max.
I'm not sure what some are calling for here? Just chuck Vai'i and Lord in against Ireland? Or start Va'i and SB with Lord on the bench? All seems a bit crazy.
As long as the selectors have a plan to have two fresh young guys that aren't entirely green and three with lots of experience at the RWC that will be fine.
I don't see it being otherwise at the moment. -
@Crucial and it might be what theyre planning, i hope so....i just have a unfounded fear that even though the squad has some new young names....our 23's are going to look very familiar
i think we've become a bit gun shy about throwing new guys in against tough opposition, i feel previously we felt coming through NPC and super rugby prepared guys well for the final step up to international rugby, even against top opposition...less so now
I'd like to see lord of vaai start with one of the older guys, not just off the bench
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@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Papallii has never had the pace to be a link player at 7
🤣
Are you on drugs ? ...do you even realize a 7 should be a fetcher, an openside has to have the pace to link up with the backs, especially with the speed the ABs play, that isn't Papalii, he's too slow for the position & weighs about 115kg, which is why he's better suited to 6 or 8.
Hahaha, good one Murray Dickhead.... yeah I've never played rugby and I'm on an array of drugs - yet my insight into rugby, players and coaching is still light years beyond your basic, clichéd dross. That must be embarrassing.
Papalii is quicker than Cane, sharpen up.
You're a clown, as usual logic goes straight out the window with you - Cane is obviously the faster of the two, also he's 103kg, Whereas Papalii is 113kg.
Can you give us some examples of this ?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial and it might be what theyre planning, i hope so....i just have a unfounded fear that even though the squad has some new young names....our 23's are going to look very familiar
i think we've become a bit gun shy about throwing new guys in against tough opposition, i feel previously we felt coming through NPC and super rugby prepared guys well for the final step up to international rugby, even against top opposition...less so now
I'd like to see lord of vaai start with one of the older guys, not just off the bench
Prepare to be disappointed in the first 23 named then. I think experience will win out over youth.
It is critical that we win this game or, not only will we be scrambling for solutions and not owning the process but will give Ireland a huge boost of confidence.The games against Australia are where we will have more leeway for gametime and hopefully we can also be one up and a good lead in the second against Ireland to throw open the bench.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Papallii has never had the pace to be a link player at 7
🤣
Are you on drugs ? ...do you even realize a 7 should be a fetcher, an openside has to have the pace to link up with the backs, especially with the speed the ABs play, that isn't Papalii, he's too slow for the position & weighs about 115kg, which is why he's better suited to 6 or 8.
Hahaha, good one Murray Dickhead.... yeah I've never played rugby and I'm on an array of drugs - yet my insight into rugby, players and coaching is still light years beyond your basic, clichéd dross. That must be embarrassing.
Papalii is quicker than Cane, sharpen up.
You're a clown, as usual logic goes straight out the window with you - Cane is obviously the faster of the two, also he's 103kg, Whereas Papalii is 113kg.
Can you give us some examples of this ?
Don't be silly. It's just plain common sense that he is. He is lighter.
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@Crucial Well I hope that he shows something this year that wasn't there last year and maybe for the reasons you expressed. I think Vaai shaded him against the Crusaders and I am not touting him as our next great lock. Of course whether the present crowd in charge of the All Blacks can get the best out of the forwards is another matter.
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@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
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I'm quietly confident in the team, most players seem to be moving in the right direction...sure some arent, but often when surrounded by players on the up, it can lift you.
Our shortcomings seem pretty basic and easy to see, I know our coaches have talked about them too, key is if they can do anything about them.
I think there are numerous backline options that excite me, and I think the potential is there for them to tear any one up, even if we barely get parity up front, its just whether the exciting combos not only get the chance, but the chance to gel!
As I keep saying, if our props can pick up thier workrate around the park (carrying, cleaning, tackling) it will take some of the heat off our locks, giving them a bit more freedom, which will help alot of our game.
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i would be astounded if the first test 23 doesn't closely match the 23 from the last Ireland test
and with good reason. The coaches think it was an aberration based on external factors and fatigue. They need to test that hypothesis.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Papallii has never had the pace to be a link player at 7
🤣
Are you on drugs ? ...do you even realize a 7 should be a fetcher, an openside has to have the pace to link up with the backs, especially with the speed the ABs play, that isn't Papalii, he's too slow for the position & weighs about 115kg, which is why he's better suited to 6 or 8.
Hahaha, good one Murray Dickhead.... yeah I've never played rugby and I'm on an array of drugs - yet my insight into rugby, players and coaching is still light years beyond your basic, clichéd dross. That must be embarrassing.
Papalii is quicker than Cane, sharpen up.
You're a clown, as usual logic goes straight out the window with you - Cane is obviously the faster of the two, also he's 103kg, Whereas Papalii is 113kg.
Can you give us some examples of this ?
Don't be silly. It's just plain common sense that he is. He is lighter.
Ah right, so based on the fact I could smoke my sons in a sprint when they were toddlers I must be a freak athlete. Cool !!!!
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2022:
From the interview.
Fozzie sounds far from convinced RTS is ready to start (wanted to see if he has a "triple threat" short passing, long passing, and kicking game)He mentioned combinations being great and used Goodhue, Havili and Mo'unga as an example.
-Wants AB team to play faster and stick to this style as being true to themselves.
Wants to improve fringe defense around the ruck.
Huge wraps on Sam Cane and firmly believes he is the right captain.
Ethan Blackadder would have been in had he not been injured.
Aaron Smith (groin) and Jordie (knee) could be a bit touch and go.
Sees Jordie as 15. Having him at 12 might alter bench options. Does not think he would have done enough to be the best 12 in NZ. Sees him as complete package at 15.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
Probably as well qualified as Foster. "We need to improve the speed of our game and accuracy". Yes but you missed the boat. You need to improve in the forwards and dominate. You will get into a bun fight when it comes to the World Cup. Accept reality.
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2022:
From the interview.
Fozzie sounds far from convinced RTS is ready to start (wanted to see if he has a "triple threat" short passing, long passing, and kicking game)He mentioned combinations being great and used Goodhue, Havili and Mo'unga as an example.
-Wants AB team to play faster and stick to this style as being true to themselves.
Wants to improve fringe defense around the ruck.
Huge wraps on Sam Cane and firmly believes he is the right captain.
Ethan Blackadder would have been in had he not been injured.
Aaron Smith (groin) and Jordie (knee) could be a bit touch and go.
Sees Jordie as 15. Having him at 12 might alter bench options. Does not think he would have done enough to be the best 12 in NZ. Sees him as complete package at 15.
RTS is missing the quadruple threat otherwise he is golden.
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2022:
From the interview.
Fozzie sounds far from convinced RTS is ready to start (wanted to see if he has a "triple threat" short passing, long passing, and kicking game)He mentioned combinations being great and used Goodhue, Havili and Mo'unga as an example.
-Wants AB team to play faster and stick to this style as being true to themselves.
Wants to improve fringe defense around the ruck.
Huge wraps on Sam Cane and firmly believes he is the right captain.
Ethan Blackadder would have been in had he not been injured.
Aaron Smith (groin) and Jordie (knee) could be a bit touch and go.
Sees Jordie as 15. Having him at 12 might alter bench options. Does not think he would have done enough to be the best 12 in NZ. Sees him as complete package at 15.
At least this year they have a cunning plan to outsmart the rush defence.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
re: the locks
one of the positions i care about.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
At least this year they have a cunning plan to outsmart the rush defence.
It will be fucking epic when it's ready, cos they've been planning it since 2017!
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
3 Canterbury players in the squad. That must be the lowest in a long time? The lowest this century?
A reflection on how terrible Canterbury have been.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
3 Canterbury players in the squad. That must be the lowest in a long time? The lowest this century?
A reflection on how terrible Canterbury have been.
I don't think so as all blacks barely play for their province!
But I get what you mean
