All Blacks 2022

Machpants

@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:

He has the distribution skills, the boot, and he is big and strong. The only thing I notice is he is less visible in the game in terms of doing significant things, due to lack of space? I have no doubt he has great potential to be a sort of second 10 type of 12 who is also able to take on the line

My trouble with JB at 12 right at this moment is that what we desperately need there is someone with linking vision. While his style can be very effective I don't see him setting RI/Jordan/Clarke etc into space, more a line runner/bender and re-set behind the gain line type.
In short he plays 12 like a fullback.

I saw him distribute for the Blacks in the lions series. Small sample size though. I think he plays that way for the Canes because that's the way they play. He's played in midfield at age group level so he has some background. I'd like to see how he goes in a test

I'm not saying he's a bad midfielder. I actually think he's quite good. But if you look at his style and how it may assist in getting our strikepower free I just don't see him as a link man like Goodhue has shown to be and QT is fast developing as. I just don't see the need to move the 15 that everyone was raving about as our best player just last year to a different spot.
If RI is at 13 we have 4 very good options in Goodhue, RTS, QT and Havili (in no order). At fullback we have 1 other very good option (2 if you move BB back there)

He needs to play. But it is a risk to move a guy who's recently nailed down 15 to another position. Maybe a one off trial, it's getting close to the next RWC so time is running out. Having said that, in my mind no one has nailed down spots starting in midfield except perhaps ALB

I see it as Jordie needs to play where he's best suited and wants to play, because Jordan's form means he should be starting at fullback.

There's plenty of Tests between now and the RWC.

But TUJ is a specialist midfielders & a much better 12 than Jordie, watch a replay of the Canes vs Landers match, TUJ physically dominated Barrett in the midfield.

Jordie has played far better at 15 for the Canes, he hasn't looked convincing at 12.

You're basing your rational on feeling.

I'm a fan of both of them at 12 and I guess it comes down to what style of rugby the All Black's want to play this year. If they want a powerful 12 to get them over the advantage line then TUJ is your man, if they want a 12 that has a physical presense, a strong kicking game and a sound offloading game then Jordie is your man.

If I had to pick one of them I would go with Jordie Barrett, he just needs more time at 12 but I think he will develop into a world-class midfielder. We are 18 tests out from the WC aswell so I'd rather go with someone that's already well equipped to playing test rugby vs an out and out rookie.

Best case scenario - they both get picked and they both get a shot in the jersey. Beats David Havili at 12 any day and I think if RTS gets selected he will be more of an impact player coming off the bench.

Foster has already strongly indicated that they're fiercely opposed to moving Jordie away from 15 again.

LOL that's making shit up too 'strongly indicated' 'fiercely opposed'? Links please. I saw the interview where he said he was watching with interest but mainly considers Jordie a fullback.

“Has it piqued my interest? I’m always interested in what teams are doing. Jordie and I have spoken about it,” Foster said. “If it’s the right thing for the team we understand that but it probably doesn’t change our plans too much.”

Fierce oppostiion there

Tim

@pakman RTS might be a bit inexperienced for that job. Maybe on the EOYT.

Not a fan of Goodhue being shifted to 12, but his defence might be better there?

pakman

@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:

@pakman RTS might be a bit inexperienced for that job. Maybe on the EOYT.

Not a fan of Goodhue being shifted to 12, but his defence might be better there?

Yes, BUT we need to try some things now and then settle on combo for last ten games to RWC.

Goodhue is in my 23, but I prefer him at 13.

pakman

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:

@pakman RTS might be a bit inexperienced for that job. Maybe on the EOYT.

Not a fan of Goodhue being shifted to 12, but his defence might be better there?

Yes, BUT we need to try some things now and then settle on combo for last ten games to RWC.

Goodhue is in my 23, but I prefer him at 13.

Backs: Nugget/BB/RTS/Rieko/Clarke/WJ/Jordie. Bench: FC(Fakatava)/Richie[Edit]/JackG.

Canes4life

Why don't we go back to the tried and tested Canterbury midfield of Jordie and Jack?

Bones

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

Ritchie

do not

Machpants

Goodhue has a long way to go before he is back in black level. Yes I'm sure he'll be in, but on form he shouldn't IMO. He was steady but not dominant. Maybe he's Conrad Smithing me and he's a glue guy, but I can't see anything that says pick me this season. If picked I hope he improves a lot and comes back to something near his best, really better than he has before, as that's what we need in the midfiled - massive improvement. Reiko is that, in many aspects, outside him nothing in the potential ABs midfield inspires jizz or even massive confidence against what they'll face against the top tier teams.

Grooter

@kiwi_expat yeah TUJ has been a real beacon of hope, I would like to see him in included the squad of 36, if not I'm placing any spare change I can find on him to win Duane Monkley medal in npc

taniwharugby

@pakman for me, Goodhue is in the 15, or doesn't play at all, not sure he will bring much from the bench.

Dan54

@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:

@pakman RTS might be a bit inexperienced for that job. Maybe on the EOYT.

Not a fan of Goodhue being shifted to 12, but his defence might be better there?

I prefer Goodhue at 12, just think he lacks a little pace for being a 13.
And putting my hand up as an internet warrior who thought he was doing to be a real top 13 when he came onto scene, just not sure he has ever kicked on though.

pakman

@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

Ritchie

do not

I wrote it right and then had second thoughts and changed it!

Crucial

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:

@pakman RTS might be a bit inexperienced for that job. Maybe on the EOYT.

Not a fan of Goodhue being shifted to 12, but his defence might be better there?

Yes, BUT we need to try some things now and then settle on combo for last ten games to RWC.

Goodhue is in my 23, but I prefer him at 13.

Why this fixation with locking in a combo? I get the importance of it in the past but these days teams don't miss a beat with personnel changes given the training and importance placed on understudies and cover.
Yes, some players are the better option and some combos play together more than others so the instincts can be better, but I don't think it is as important as in the past. If anything having a locked in combo for 10 tests is an opposition team analyst dream and also keeps back up and alternate options rusty.
I would just like a settled 'group' of 12s and 13s that can all train together and be interchangeable.

Crucial

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

@kiwi_expat I think if the All Black's want to improve on their game this is the obvious move when you take into account the form of Will Jordan. Infact, if we don't see the Jordie at 12 / Jordan at 15 combination early into the test season, then it just reiterates to me that the wrong person is incharge of this All Black's side.

Will Jordans best attribute is being able to anticipate and use his speed and game reading to pop up in useful places. The ball seems to bounce his way more often than not and he has the ability to take advantage of opportunities.
In test rugby the fullback has to play 'up and down' the field a bit more which constrains those abilities. Isn't one of the dislikes of DMac in tests is that when he goes searching it puts pressure on others to cover?
I think that right at this moment Jordan is best employed with a roaming licence on the wing. If that becomes less effective then 15 would be his best spot.

EDIT: DMac wasn't placed on the wing enough IMO. His stats show that he was very effective there in test rugby.

booboo

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:

just sort of an in general comment

the last time i remember us looking at a team reshape before a world cup was in 2010, the season after the very shit 2009.

The selectors changed almost half the squad, 13 changes to a 30 man squad. Only one would i consider to be a given, and that was Carter coming back.
Of the 13 i think 8 went on to make the World Cup squad.
lots of 2007 RWC team members out. Guys like Dagg, Cruden, Kahui, Vito, Boric brought in

So a big set of changes at this exact point is not without precedent.

Can you see a lot of changes in personnel though?

I'm not convinced there's a large pool of untried players on the verge of selection.

Couple of props, maybe a barely eligible halfback and RTS.

Edit: and 3rd 10 in Perofeta

booboo

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:

Whoosh

taniwharugby

@Dan54 tbf he has had injury issues, I mean he seems like he has been about for years but played less than 20 tests.

He is the kind of player teams need, but he isn't that mythical x-factor player people always want either.

I hope he gets a chance again, but it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't, so many options have emerged following his injury last year and he is slowly easing back to super rugby.

With my Northland hat on, stoked if he doesn't get picked in black.