All Blacks 2022
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2022:
Joe Schmidt's intensity a key influence at Blues, says Christie
The former Ireland head coach has added international experience and a demanding attitude to Super Rugby Pacific's high-fliers.
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Blues have got MacDonald who is starting to look a good coach, Schmidt is only filling in as he has retired to area etc. Afeaki and Conventry are simple good employing by Blues, it's hardly hoarding international quality coaches as we have no idea how good they would be at test level anyway.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
Maybe I misunderstood you but I don't think @kiwi_expat was talking about playing ability. I read it as coaches whose ceiling is Super Rugby - as coaches.
yes, and could even argue in Foster's case considering his meagre 50% success-rate across eight seasons.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
unfortunately his distribution game was pants, could be different now though.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
Jordie was 96kgs when he was a fresh faced kid. He's waay bigger now and has bulked up so much he's got a double chin.
You only have to look at what guys around him weigh in at to see that 96kgs and 100kgs are not credible weights for him..
Will Jordan is running around at 100kgs and Jordie is taller and proportionately more heavy-set.
Rieko Ioane is listed widely as 105kgs and significantly shorter than Jordie.
Brother Scott is only slightly taller and locking the AB scrum at 118kgs Jordie's not giving him nearly 20kgs.
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Could many birds be killed with one stone by shifting Barrett to No 12? The argument stacks up. The All Blacks want a physical specimen there. That’s a tick as Barrett is 1.96m and 105kg. He can run direct, angled lines because he does this a lot for the Hurricanes when he often pops up as first receiver.
Is Jordie Barrett the fix to the All Blacks' problem position?
It may be a left-field move, but Jordie Barrett has all the skills needed for a shift back to the midfield.
These guys are much closer to the money, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jordie was several kgs heavier.
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@Chris-B... Foster already ruled it out in recent interview so why is the media still beating this horse?
TUJ, Goodhue, RTS, Tupaea, Havili (shudder), are the likely contenders.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B... Foster already ruled it out in recent interview so why is the media still beating this horse?
Lol expat, you know what the media is like, sometimes it easier to beat a dead horse as it doesn't kick you back??
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@kiwi_expat The interview I saw of Foster a couple of weeks ago on the Breakdown he cagily said he was "watching with interest".
I don't think they will start him there in the first game against Ireland (right now I'm expecting Jack Goodhue), but I will frankly be more surprised than not if we don't see him at 2nd five for the ABs some time this year.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
Jordie was 96kgs when he was a fresh faced kid. He's waay bigger now and has bulked up so much he's got a double chin.
You only have to look at what guys around him weigh in at to see that 96kgs and 100kgs are not credible weights for him..
Will Jordan is running around at 100kgs and Jordie is taller and proportionately more heavy-set.
Rieko Ioane is listed widely as 105kgs and significantly shorter than Jordie.
Brother Scott is only slightly taller and locking the AB scrum at 118kgs Jordie's not giving him nearly 20kgs.
Oh so he’s been training with Foster then ? Just what we don’t need.
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@Bovidae ALB is definitely not 104kg, seen him standing next to Havili (who's 95kg) last year for All Blacks & they are almost identical in size.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae ALB is definitely not 104kg, seen him standing next to Havili (who's 95kg), Chiefs website says 96kg.
Sorry, he is 102.8 kg. (3:18 in this video)
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I half jokingly predicted the future AB midfield would be Rieko and Jordie a year is so back. Rieko is now a world class centre and Jordie is finally getting game time at 12.
That said, it's too early to put Jordie at 12 for the ABs, he doesn't have a big enough body of work there at Super level yet. It took him a long time to find his feet at test level after going between 14 and 15 a lot, so I'm not sure he's the kind of player that can easily adapt to playing multiple positions at the top level.
He's world class at 15 and I'm a bit loathe to put him back to square one and have him playing 12 in the hope he'll solve a problem there. I've got pretty high hopes for RTS, and in the meantime Goodhue and Rieko look like they would compliment each other well. And a back three of Jordan-Jordie-Clarke is fucking delicious.
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@No-Quarter hang on a minute - after him probably playing most of the super season at 12, you don't want him switching positions so you're shuffling him back to 15?
I'd say his game and mentality across the board has improved immensely since 2-3 years ago, he seems to bring a high (and consistent) level to whatever position these days. It's definitely not too early.
If he's the best 12 in the comp, as well as being a seasoned international I don't see the issue.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
I half jokingly predicted the future AB midfield would be Rieko and Jordie a year is so back. Rieko is now a world class centre and Jordie is finally getting game time at 12.
That said, it's too early to put Jordie at 12 for the ABs, he doesn't have a big enough body of work there at Super level yet. It took him a long time to find his feet at test level after going between 14 and 15 a lot, so I'm not sure he's the kind of player that can easily adapt to playing multiple positions at the top level.
He's world class at 15 and I'm a bit loathe to put him back to square on and have him playing 12 in the hope he'll solve a problem there. I've got pretty high hopes for RTS, and in the meantime Goodhue and Rieko look like they would compliment each other well. And a back three of Jordan-Jordie-Clarke is fucking delicious.
I remember thinking I wouldn't mind seeing them as our midfield combo some day & this was back in 2016
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