All Blacks 2022
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
If we are talking people who may have made good nines, I am going to suggest Reece. His darting around the ruck would have been handy.
one of the main positive takeawyas from last year was just how dangerous Reece looked in close. I would love for our coaching staff to let him have an open license to sniff around the fringes for opportunities (see the much more limited Lowe killing us in the same role last year).
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it's really funny how overrated college rugby can be on here
"oh, he played that position in college, he could absolutely do it in a test"
"oh, he can't play that position, he didn't start in college"
Jonah Lomu really should have been a number 8 at test level aye...
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Morgan Parra and Ruan Pienaar are two players that immediately come to mind as being able to play halfback and 1st 5. However, they are halfbacks who can play in another position, not the other way around. We've talked before about converting loose forwards into hookers but that process started once those players left school so they learnt the nuances of the new position before playing pro rugby.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
If we are talking people who may have made good nines, I am going to suggest Reece. His darting around the ruck would have been handy.
one of the main positive takeawyas from last year was just how dangerous Reece looked in close. I would love for our coaching staff to let him have an open license to sniff around the fringes for opportunities (see the much more limited Lowe killing us in the same role last year).
Maybe the experiment of having TJP run from depth a few times last year was a tester to see how defences adjusted.
I don’t think this coaching team get any credit for some of the tactical pieces we have seen tried. Some will be abandoned and some used as parts of a way to play.
I’m not claiming a “powder dry” just that I acknowledge a bit of testing going on and am wondering where it will lead. -
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
If we are talking people who may have made good nines, I am going to suggest Reece. His darting around the ruck would have been handy.
can flop with the best of them too, which is a key skill for a 9
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Let's compare him to current players that would be his peers: Running game would be comparable to Webber and TJP, passing at least as the next best after Aaron. Gamesmanship at rucks, putting the ball into a scrum, etc. would come quickly. If he had done this early in his professional career he'd be a walk up start IMO.
Ok well I understand where you coming from. but to say him having a running game off a scrum, ruck or lineout etc without seeing him do it is I think maybe guessing a fair bit. Even passing from ground and picking up ball etc is so different at 9. I go along with Crucial as maybe with a lot of traing he could of been a spare 9 against minnows in WC, How many remember the Matt Giteau shmozzle by Robbie Deans in 2011 WC, and he had played a bit at 9.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Let's compare him to current players that would be his peers: Running game would be comparable to Webber and TJP, passing at least as the next best after Aaron. Gamesmanship at rucks, putting the ball into a scrum, etc. would come quickly. If he had done this early in his professional career he'd be a walk up start IMO.
Ok well I understand where you coming from. but to say him having a running game off a scrum, ruck or lineout etc without seeing him do it is I think maybe guessing a fair bit. Even passing from ground and picking up ball etc is so different at 9. I go along with Crucial as maybe with a lot of traing he could of been a spare 9 against minnows in WC, How many remember the Matt Giteau shmozzle by Robbie Deans in 2011 WC, and he had played a bit at 9.
Yeah, I don't want to give the wrong impression that they should've shoved him into halfback for the 2019 RWC. I'm talking about him transitioning very early in his career.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Let's compare him to current players that would be his peers: Running game would be comparable to Webber and TJP, passing at least as the next best after Aaron. Gamesmanship at rucks, putting the ball into a scrum, etc. would come quickly. If he had done this early in his professional career he'd be a walk up start IMO.
Ok well I understand where you coming from. but to say him having a running game off a scrum, ruck or lineout etc without seeing him do it is I think maybe guessing a fair bit. Even passing from ground and picking up ball etc is so different at 9. I go along with Crucial as maybe with a lot of traing he could of been a spare 9 against minnows in WC, How many remember the Matt Giteau shmozzle by Robbie Deans in 2011 WC, and he had played a bit at 9.
Yeah, I don't want to give the wrong impression that they should've shoved him into halfback for the 2019 RWC. I'm talking about him transitioning very early in his career.
Easy there Laurel, stick to weightlifting.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Let's compare him to current players that would be his peers: Running game would be comparable to Webber and TJP, passing at least as the next best after Aaron. Gamesmanship at rucks, putting the ball into a scrum, etc. would come quickly. If he had done this early in his professional career he'd be a walk up start IMO.
Ok well I understand where you coming from. but to say him having a running game off a scrum, ruck or lineout etc without seeing him do it is I think maybe guessing a fair bit. Even passing from ground and picking up ball etc is so different at 9. I go along with Crucial as maybe with a lot of traing he could of been a spare 9 against minnows in WC, How many remember the Matt Giteau shmozzle by Robbie Deans in 2011 WC, and he had played a bit at 9.
Yeah, I don't want to give the wrong impression that they should've shoved him into halfback for the 2019 RWC. I'm talking about him transitioning very early in his career.
Easy there Laurel, stick to weightlifting.
Silver Ferns need all the help they can get after their disastrous tour.
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Re DMac: He's a good team player, has freakish skills, is a good defender and brave as hell for a small-ish bloke. I like him and I'd like him in my team. The best he's played in Black has been at 15 (though he's OK at 10) and for me, that position has been nailed down by Jordie.
So I'd like him in the 23 used as a utility cover and as an impact player at 10 or 15. - but I think picking him at 9, or as cover for 9, as we want his skills on the park is just a step too far
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Why ever not? Why skills do you envisage require a grounding at school level to be able to play the position as an adult?
Not skills but being comfortable playing at 9 which only comes with experience. I personally have seen nothing in DMac's skill set that would make me think he would be a good 9. Even his tyle of play doesn't really make me think hell he would be good at 9, I think some are just looking at has size .
Let's compare him to current players that would be his peers: Running game would be comparable to Webber and TJP, passing at least as the next best after Aaron. Gamesmanship at rucks, putting the ball into a scrum, etc. would come quickly. If he had done this early in his professional career he'd be a walk up start IMO.
Ok well I understand where you coming from. but to say him having a running game off a scrum, ruck or lineout etc without seeing him do it is I think maybe guessing a fair bit. Even passing from ground and picking up ball etc is so different at 9. I go along with Crucial as maybe with a lot of traing he could of been a spare 9 against minnows in WC, How many remember the Matt Giteau shmozzle by Robbie Deans in 2011 WC, and he had played a bit at 9.
Yeah, I don't want to give the wrong impression that they should've shoved him into halfback for the 2019 RWC. I'm talking about him transitioning very early in his career.
Yep fair enough mate, may of worked , but it all guess work now I suppose.
I will add that's why we have rugby forums for?
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Dmac looks like a mouthy bugger...isn't that all thats needed to be a 9?
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
Think I've said a few times on here with no support (nothing new there), but I still think DMac could have been an outstanding test #9.
I've said he should have been a scrum half.
Not sure he has shown much to make me think he should be a 9,
He's got a good pass and a good running game. His defence means he'd be no worse behind a ruck as cover than other candidates and judging by the standard in New Zealand, his box kicks wouldn't have to be world leading to be competitive. If he made the transition early in his career he'd be a shoe-in for the bench spot.
Yep well if he had played at 9 during college years etc, he may have th skills to play there, I really meant it not a position you change too at 18-20yo.
Yeah, leave that kind of thing up to RWC winners eh?
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I don't know who Penrith's defence coach is but surely the NZRU can afford to poach?
Their entire game is built over their ability to pin teams in their own end with linespeed and hard shoulders is so impressive
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I don't know who Penrith's defence coach is but surely the NZRU can afford to poach?
Their entire game is built over their ability to pin teams in their own end with linespeed and hard shoulders is so impressive
I feel I'm qualified to comment here having not seen Penrith play for at least a decade - that sounds like a recipe for a redcardfest.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I don't know who Penrith's defence coach is but surely the NZRU can afford to poach?
Their entire game is built over their ability to pin teams in their own end with linespeed and hard shoulders is so impressive
I feel I'm qualified to comment here having not seen Penrith play for at least a decade - that sounds like a recipe for a redcardfest.
And yet they are defending premiers and haven't lost a game in yonks.
Solid input as always -
A loose head (can scrum.and run)
ST
Ofa
Lord
Whitelock
Akira
Cane
Sotutu
Smith
Barrett
Clark
RYS
RI
Reece
JordanColes
A Hodgeman
A tight head
T Vaa'i
A Savea
Christie
Mounga
J BarrettCane over Papalii only because we need a bit of experience in the pack, and his form to experience quotient is the highest
If we are wedded to individual brilliance to win games, pick the individuals with brilliance
And we're gonna run and bash things. -
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I don't know who Penrith's defence coach is but surely the NZRU can afford to poach?
Their entire game is built over their ability to pin teams in their own end with linespeed and hard shoulders is so impressive
I feel I'm qualified to comment here having not seen Penrith play for at least a decade - that sounds like a recipe for a redcardfest.
And yet they are defending premiers and haven't lost a game in yonks.
Solid input as alwaysHappy to help
