World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules
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@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare. -
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.Bollocks it is targeted at that sort of theoretical player.
A 1 test All Black in the French 2nd Div would be the rare example. You might get a 1 cap Samoan in French 2nd Div swap to Cook Islands.
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@rapido said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.Bollocks it is targeted at that sort of theoretical player.
A 1 test All Black in the French 2nd Div would be the rare example. You might get a 1 cap Samoan in French 2nd Div swap to Cook Islands.
Francis Saili (1)? Frank Halai (1)? Seta Tamanivalu (3)?
All examples of discards not really in the top levels but maybe valuable to other countries.Fekitoa (23) has already started his switch through Sevens.
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@rapido said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.Bollocks it is targeted at that sort of theoretical player.
A 1 test All Black in the French 2nd Div would be the rare example. You might get a 1 cap Samoan in French 2nd Div swap to Cook Islands.
Francis Saili (1)? Frank Halai (1)? Seta Tamanivalu (3)?
All examples of discards not really in the top levels but maybe valuable to other countries.Fekitoa (23) has already started his switch through Sevens.
It's not targeted at them though. It's not targeted at anyone specifically.
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@rapido said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@rapido said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.Bollocks it is targeted at that sort of theoretical player.
A 1 test All Black in the French 2nd Div would be the rare example. You might get a 1 cap Samoan in French 2nd Div swap to Cook Islands.
Francis Saili (1)? Frank Halai (1)? Seta Tamanivalu (3)?
All examples of discards not really in the top levels but maybe valuable to other countries.Fekitoa (23) has already started his switch through Sevens.
It's not targeted at them though. It's not targeted at anyone specifically.
I had said that it's more targeted at those types than at the Piutau's that get to benefit all along the chain and I do believe that it was one of the main driving arguments put forward that players of reasonable quality that have lost eligibility through a handful of appearances or Sevens aren't lost to the international game.
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
Taking Paul Williams as an example it's not obvious to me why it would be a travesty for him to be ineligible Samoa as a second nation if had already decided to be capped for NZ. Sure there may be a link, but even a parental link is pushing it in many circumstances.
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@rotated said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
Taking Paul Williams as an example it's not obvious to me why it would be a travesty for him to be ineligible Samoa as a second nation if had already decided to be capped for NZ. Sure there may be a link, but even a parental link is pushing it in many circumstances.
Each circumstance is different quite obviously and although citizenship isn't part of this rule (but is for Olympics), for many places it may well be a travesty that someone can be a citizen (through grandparents) yet not be able to represent that country because they were selected for another some time back.
I don't understand the opposition to this if it creates better teams and therefore better games to watch.
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.I have a bridge to sell you
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@rotated said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
Taking Paul Williams as an example it's not obvious to me why it would be a travesty for him to be ineligible Samoa as a second nation if had already decided to be capped for NZ. Sure there may be a link, but even a parental link is pushing it in many circumstances.
Each circumstance is different quite obviously and although citizenship isn't part of this rule (but is for Olympics), for many places it may well be a travesty that someone can be a citizen (through grandparents) yet not be able to represent that country because they were selected for another some time back.
I don't understand the opposition to this if it creates better teams and therefore better games to watch.
I agree Crucial, although there maybe a few cases where it doesn't settle well, in the long run I think it very positive.
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@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.I have a bridge to sell you
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@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@mariner4life said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
so, be born in NZ, learn your rugby in NZ, become a good player on our IP and systems. Make the ABs. Get paid well. Use your new profile to jag a fat overseas contract. Take up said contract, knowing full well you can't play for the ABs any more
Have a bit of a whinge, play for another team at the next World Cup.
Have cake. Also eat.
This doesn't "grow the game" this pretty much just means the same guys play at World Cups but in different jerseys. Maybe Samoa and Tonga (who this is aimed at) make a quarter here or there. Big whoop.
Great for Charlie Paitau, who now gts to play at the World Cup AND keep his fat UK contract. Bad for the Tongan bloke who will probably qualify them for the tournament, but lose his RWC spot to Charlie.
Yeah nah.
This is more targeted at players that might get plucked into say an AB team, get dumped after 1 game and are then in the international wilderness and are playing 2nd div in France.
If we want a stronger international schedule then we need these guys playing.
The Piutau's are rare.I have a bridge to sell you
not sure what award category this falls into to but its a winner
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@dan54 said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@rotated said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
Taking Paul Williams as an example it's not obvious to me why it would be a travesty for him to be ineligible Samoa as a second nation if had already decided to be capped for NZ. Sure there may be a link, but even a parental link is pushing it in many circumstances.
Each circumstance is different quite obviously and although citizenship isn't part of this rule (but is for Olympics), for many places it may well be a travesty that someone can be a citizen (through grandparents) yet not be able to represent that country because they were selected for another some time back.
I don't understand the opposition to this if it creates better teams and therefore better games to watch.
I agree Crucial, although there maybe a few cases where it doesn't settle well, in the long run I think it very positive.
If you eliminate the grandparent rule on the second union only you eliminate 95% of the cases that are taking the piss and still keep most of the benefit.
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Fantastic win for PI rugby. It definitely makes PI teams more competitive from next year and RWC 2023 extremely interesting for the likes of Scotland, Italy and potentially Argentina the way their form has been. At a tournament like RWC they may even cause an upset or two of the Top tier nations.
Anyone seen/got a list of potential teams?
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@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity. Probably the same for Celtic diaspora in England.
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@majorrage said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
So how’s it going to work in the real world?
All the stars mentioned going to be happy playing for completely amateur unions against their clubs wishes?
If it forces the PI top brass to get their shit together can only be good. But pissing off your 7 figure payers to play for the PI unions in their current state simply won’t work.
Dan Leo’s doc was mostly eye opening in the shambolic, corrupt way the countries unions were run. I don’t see how that’s changed here.
ThThe PI teams will be stronger at each World Cup, but they will still be complete shit shows in between.
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@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
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I'd be curious to compare a list of unions that voted against this change with a list of teams in the same pool as Tonga or Samoa at the next world cup
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I, potentially naively, also think we should give these unions credit. they will still prefer some up and comer over some old hat on the verge of retirement. I think 90% of the cases we'll see are either people that have legit only had one or two caps for their first country or they will bring in one or two senior players in key positions
I've seen suggestions like Tonga having
11 Piutau
12 Laumape
13 Fekitoa
14 NMS
15 Folauand Samoa with similar level names, i just cant see it happening, one or two maybe
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@nta said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@junior said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crucial said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
@crazy-horse said in World Rugby Change Eligibigilty Rules:
I think stretching it out to a grandparent is too far.
In western terms I generally agree (as in 'my granny was born in Scotland and moved to NZ as a child), but in the PI diaspora I think it is fair enough. The country ties are very strong.
I would also suggest that the ties are strong for the NZ diaspora in Oz, mainly due to proximity.
And the fact every fucking Kiwi at your club will swear on a Bible they were an AB trialist
To be fair, as soon as Google became a thing, we had a lot less AB trialists turning out at our club...
