Ashes 2021-22
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@no-quarter said in Ashes 2021-22:
That said, it's a regular series between two teams, there will always be periods where one team is a lot better than the other, that's the nature of sport.
Agreed - England had a fairly hot run under Strauss/Cook from 2009-2013, with an 8-5-2 record.
If we had been forced to rotate bowlers against India last summer, I wonder if the outcome would have been any different
The pitches were a lot more lively this year, and the revamped Kookaburra ball (+2 pink tests) also made things challenging for the batsmen.
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@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
Clearly better than England. Wonder if this will be a spring board for them to come and play with the big boys now.
Bangladesh are looking pretty good, eh?
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@no-quarter said in Ashes 2021-22:
That said, it's a regular series between two teams, there will always be periods where one team is a lot better than the other, that's the nature of sport.
Agreed - England had a fairly hot run under Strauss/Cook from 2009-2013, with an 8-5-2 record.
If we had been forced to rotate bowlers against India last summer, I wonder if the outcome would have been any different
The pitches were a lot more lively this year, and the revamped Kookaburra ball (+2 pink tests) also made things challenging for the batsmen.
Well those two could actually, you know……”open” the batting in a respectable manner.
Englands openers were shite even by 90s BC standards.
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 Australia's weren't much better this series. Sure, Warner got a couple of good scores but as a partnership they were hardly blunting the new ball attack.
Warner will be Broad's little bitch forever.
Fuck knows why they rotated the old boys like they did, both bowled really well at times.
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@no-quarter It's become too bloody regular for me. Five match series between two not exactly brilliant sides has become a bit of a yawn fest TBH. We've had six series in the last decade and seven in 11 years.
There's also not been that many periods of Pommy dominance.
In the last 100 years they have held the Ashes for eight runs. During this time the best they've ever managed is winning three series on the trot which they have managed three times (once during the Packer era). Countering that they have regained the Ashes but failed to retain it at the first hurdle three times as well.
Years with England as Holders (series contested in brackets)
1926-29 (2)
32-34 (1)
53-58 (3)
71-75 (2)
77-83 (3)
85-89 (2)
2005-06 (1)
09-14 (3)
15-17 (1)
they've won 18 series to the Ockers 32 since WWI so roughly 1-3 -
@dogmeat said in Ashes 2021-22:
@no-quarter It's become too bloody regular for me. Five match series between two not exactly brilliant sides has become a bit of a yawn fest TBH. We've had six series in the last decade and seven in 11 years.
There's also not been that many periods of Pommy dominance.
In the last 100 years they have held the Ashes for eight runs. During this time the best they've ever managed is winning three series on the trot which they have managed three times (once during the Packer era). Countering that they have regained the Ashes but failed to retain it at the first hurdle three times as well.
Years with England as Holders (series contested in brackets)
1926-29 (2)
32-34 (1)
53-58 (3)
71-75 (2)
77-83 (3)
85-89 (2)
2005-06 (1)
09-14 (3)
15-17 (1)
they've won 18 series to the Ockers 32 since WWI so roughly 1-3Bloody rough on Australia. They have some seriously class players and Green and Boland are a couple of very good up and comers.
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@mn5 I was meaning over the last decade, but OK. So I'll refine my argument one sided contests between one good-very good and one laughable - good side get a bit boring.
Seriously there have been 35 tests between these two in 11 years. Don't you think it's all a bit samey?
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@dogmeat said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 I was meaning over the last decade, but OK. So I'll refine my argument one sided contests between one good-very good and one laughable - good side get a bit boring.
Seriously there have been 35 tests between these two in 11 years. Don't you think it's all a bit samey?
It’s called the Ashes
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@mn5 said in Ashes 2021-22:
@crucial said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@crucial said in Ashes 2021-22:
There are lots of directions to point fingers when looking at this England rabble but I hope they have learned that Stokes is heartless. His dismissals almost always paid a big part in collapses and were usually from totally unnecessary shots.
Is there more to the story or did he just give up and couldn't be arsed?
Root is a rubbish captain but he also had no support from other senior players.Stokes is heartless?
Ben Stokes has no heart?
Um. Literally lost for words
I'm starting to think @Crucial might be the bloke who Stokes whacked in Bristol. It's the only possible explanation to have it in for him this much!
This much? It's the only comment I have made I think? ( There may have been the odd 'wtf was that' during a game)
They might be confusing you with me, I get ferners mixed up all the time in my old age.
I think I may have misattributed some previous posts, my apologies @Crucial .
Stokes may be a lot of things, including a Cantab, but it's a bit rough on a pitch like that to fault him playing an aggressive game.
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@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 said in Ashes 2021-22:
@crucial said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@crucial said in Ashes 2021-22:
There are lots of directions to point fingers when looking at this England rabble but I hope they have learned that Stokes is heartless. His dismissals almost always paid a big part in collapses and were usually from totally unnecessary shots.
Is there more to the story or did he just give up and couldn't be arsed?
Root is a rubbish captain but he also had no support from other senior players.Stokes is heartless?
Ben Stokes has no heart?
Um. Literally lost for words
I'm starting to think @Crucial might be the bloke who Stokes whacked in Bristol. It's the only possible explanation to have it in for him this much!
This much? It's the only comment I have made I think? ( There may have been the odd 'wtf was that' during a game)
They might be confusing you with me, I get ferners mixed up all the time in my old age.
I think I may have misattributed some previous posts, my apologies @Crucial .
…..and my only gripe with Stokes is more about articles going on about him as if he’s Botham level when he isn’t quite there.
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Just to clarify the 'heartless' comment.
It was directed at his play in the last couple of tests where he had seemingly given up playing 'for the team'. The guy has ability but wasn't applying it to the team needs.
His batting position dictates a bit of grit, especially when on the verge of a collapse but he played aerial shots and didn't 'put his heart' into it.
Everyone makes mistakes or can be drawn into rash shots. He looked to be playing his own game. -
what's really sad for England is jut how few runs Australia needed to make this series as close to 5-0 as it is possible. And those runs didn't come from the 3 usual suspects
They batted 9 times and scored just shy of 2,500 runs. In Australia that is nothing.
Waj and Head top the totals in the mid-300s. Loosbuschange comes in 3rd, but if the English didn't have feet for hands he has a lot less and is down with Smith and Warner.
And yet England got hammered
Do not go to Australia and try to play back foot drives for fucks sake.
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@mariner4life said in Ashes 2021-22:
what's really sad for England is jut how few runs Australia needed to make this series as close to 5-0 as it is possible. And those runs didn't come from the 3 usual suspects
They batted 9 times and scored just shy of 2,500 runs. In Australia that is nothing.
Waj and Head top the totals in the mid-300s. Loosbuschange comes in 3rd, but if the English didn't have feet for hands he has a lot less and is down with Smith and Warner.
And yet England got hammered
Do not go to Australia and try to play back foot drives for fucks sake.
Loose bus change looks to be doing a Jimmy Adams, his luck is running out….as for Smith his average has plummeted to under 60…..but yes, despite this England still got absolutely murdered.
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@mariner4life said in Ashes 2021-22:
They batted 9 times and scored just shy of 2,500 runs. In Australia that is nothing.
Waj and Head top the totals in the mid-300s.I can't recall the last time there were such bowler friendly wickets across 5 tests in Aussie?
Normally there's at least a couple of grounds that are hard work for the bowlers.
I skimmed through the last few Ashes series in Australia. Here' the top 5 run scorers from each series
This series top 5:
357, 335, 322, 273, 255Older series (totals in bold are higher than this series best):
17/18 - 687, 445, 441, 383, 378
13/14 - 523, 493, 463, 363, 345
10/11 - 766, 570, 445, 435, 360
06/07 - 576, 490, 458, 433, 413 -
@duluth said in Ashes 2021-22:
I can't recall the last time there were such bowler friendly wickets across 5 tests in Aussie?
Normally there's at least a couple of grounds that are hard work for the bowlers.Day/night test changed Adelaide. Melbourne was a fair bit more bouncy and seamy than normal. Then Hobart instead of Perth was a massive change as well. And it was pink ball!
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The brutal truth of it is England just aren't a good cricket team.
Root is the reverse Warner, in many ways. His home record is great, and he's got runs away from home but not nearly enough in the one place where it really counts. Nine half centuries for zero hundreds speaks to a real mental weakness.
But who else have they got? Ben Stokes was heartless in this series, there's no two ways about it. Playing hurt is admirable but Joe Root was crying out for support with the bat and Stokes failed him time and time again. He's had amazing highs in his career but went missing in this series, and was thoroughly outplayed by Cameron Green.
The only two others with any highs at all were Bairstow and Crawley. The common factor there was they tried to play aggressive cricket, which you really have to do to win in Australia. You could see it in Hobart, at 0/60 in the second dig Burns and Crawley were trying to push the score along. The moment they were out the brakes came on and the wickets tumbled.
The defining man of the series was Travis Head, and his two centuries came at strike rates of about 120 and about 95. Not to say that you need to go out and play T20 cricket, but you need to cash in while you can. Especially when almost all of the decks in this series favoured the bowlers.
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@barbarian said in Ashes 2021-22:
The brutal truth of it is England just aren't a good cricket team.
Root is the reverse Warner, in many ways. His home record is great, and he's got runs away from home but not nearly enough in the one place where it really counts. Nine half centuries for zero hundreds speaks to a real mental weakness.
But who else have they got? Ben Stokes was heartless in this series, there's no two ways about it. Playing hurt is admirable but Joe Root was crying out for support with the bat and Stokes failed him time and time again. He's had amazing highs in his career but went missing in this series, and was thoroughly outplayed by Cameron Green.
The only two others with any highs at all were Bairstow and Crawley. The common factor there was they tried to play aggressive cricket, which you really have to do to win in Australia. You could see it in Hobart, at 0/60 in the second dig Burns and Crawley were trying to push the score along. The moment they were out the brakes came on and the wickets tumbled.
The defining man of the series was Travis Head, and his two centuries came at strike rates of about 120 and about 95. Not to say that you need to go out and play T20 cricket, but you need to cash in while you can. Especially when almost all of the decks in this series favoured the bowlers.
I think you need to give the England bowlers some credit too. They all had their moments.
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@mn5 Key word being moments. They only took 20 Australian wickets in a game once, and that was on a green monster in Hobart.
So on that basis I can't give them a pass mark. They certainly troubled the batsmen at times but could never keep that energy up for more than an hour or two.
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@barbarian said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 Key word being moments. They only took 20 Australian wickets in a game once, and that was on a green monster in Hobart.
So on that basis I can't give them a pass mark. They certainly troubled the batsmen at times but could never keep that energy up for more than an hour or two.
That is a strange way of grading things. I would argue the pace bowlers were very good, even accounting for the favourable conditions you would sign up for Smith and Warner averaging sub-35 with no match winning knocks. Given they had zero scoreboard pressure to work with, a poor spinner and limited rest between the first and second innings in the final two tests they did very well. The amount of dropped catches, wickets off no balls and marginal DRS decisions especially early in the series was staggering.
