Ashes 2021-22
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@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 said in Ashes 2021-22:
@crucial said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@crucial said in Ashes 2021-22:
There are lots of directions to point fingers when looking at this England rabble but I hope they have learned that Stokes is heartless. His dismissals almost always paid a big part in collapses and were usually from totally unnecessary shots.
Is there more to the story or did he just give up and couldn't be arsed?
Root is a rubbish captain but he also had no support from other senior players.Stokes is heartless?
Ben Stokes has no heart?
Um. Literally lost for words
I'm starting to think @Crucial might be the bloke who Stokes whacked in Bristol. It's the only possible explanation to have it in for him this much!
This much? It's the only comment I have made I think? ( There may have been the odd 'wtf was that' during a game)
They might be confusing you with me, I get ferners mixed up all the time in my old age.
I think I may have misattributed some previous posts, my apologies @Crucial .
…..and my only gripe with Stokes is more about articles going on about him as if he’s Botham level when he isn’t quite there.
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Just to clarify the 'heartless' comment.
It was directed at his play in the last couple of tests where he had seemingly given up playing 'for the team'. The guy has ability but wasn't applying it to the team needs.
His batting position dictates a bit of grit, especially when on the verge of a collapse but he played aerial shots and didn't 'put his heart' into it.
Everyone makes mistakes or can be drawn into rash shots. He looked to be playing his own game. -
what's really sad for England is jut how few runs Australia needed to make this series as close to 5-0 as it is possible. And those runs didn't come from the 3 usual suspects
They batted 9 times and scored just shy of 2,500 runs. In Australia that is nothing.
Waj and Head top the totals in the mid-300s. Loosbuschange comes in 3rd, but if the English didn't have feet for hands he has a lot less and is down with Smith and Warner.
And yet England got hammered
Do not go to Australia and try to play back foot drives for fucks sake.
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@mariner4life said in Ashes 2021-22:
what's really sad for England is jut how few runs Australia needed to make this series as close to 5-0 as it is possible. And those runs didn't come from the 3 usual suspects
They batted 9 times and scored just shy of 2,500 runs. In Australia that is nothing.
Waj and Head top the totals in the mid-300s. Loosbuschange comes in 3rd, but if the English didn't have feet for hands he has a lot less and is down with Smith and Warner.
And yet England got hammered
Do not go to Australia and try to play back foot drives for fucks sake.
Loose bus change looks to be doing a Jimmy Adams, his luck is running out….as for Smith his average has plummeted to under 60…..but yes, despite this England still got absolutely murdered.
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@mariner4life said in Ashes 2021-22:
They batted 9 times and scored just shy of 2,500 runs. In Australia that is nothing.
Waj and Head top the totals in the mid-300s.I can't recall the last time there were such bowler friendly wickets across 5 tests in Aussie?
Normally there's at least a couple of grounds that are hard work for the bowlers.
I skimmed through the last few Ashes series in Australia. Here' the top 5 run scorers from each series
This series top 5:
357, 335, 322, 273, 255Older series (totals in bold are higher than this series best):
17/18 - 687, 445, 441, 383, 378
13/14 - 523, 493, 463, 363, 345
10/11 - 766, 570, 445, 435, 360
06/07 - 576, 490, 458, 433, 413 -
@duluth said in Ashes 2021-22:
I can't recall the last time there were such bowler friendly wickets across 5 tests in Aussie?
Normally there's at least a couple of grounds that are hard work for the bowlers.Day/night test changed Adelaide. Melbourne was a fair bit more bouncy and seamy than normal. Then Hobart instead of Perth was a massive change as well. And it was pink ball!
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The brutal truth of it is England just aren't a good cricket team.
Root is the reverse Warner, in many ways. His home record is great, and he's got runs away from home but not nearly enough in the one place where it really counts. Nine half centuries for zero hundreds speaks to a real mental weakness.
But who else have they got? Ben Stokes was heartless in this series, there's no two ways about it. Playing hurt is admirable but Joe Root was crying out for support with the bat and Stokes failed him time and time again. He's had amazing highs in his career but went missing in this series, and was thoroughly outplayed by Cameron Green.
The only two others with any highs at all were Bairstow and Crawley. The common factor there was they tried to play aggressive cricket, which you really have to do to win in Australia. You could see it in Hobart, at 0/60 in the second dig Burns and Crawley were trying to push the score along. The moment they were out the brakes came on and the wickets tumbled.
The defining man of the series was Travis Head, and his two centuries came at strike rates of about 120 and about 95. Not to say that you need to go out and play T20 cricket, but you need to cash in while you can. Especially when almost all of the decks in this series favoured the bowlers.
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@barbarian said in Ashes 2021-22:
The brutal truth of it is England just aren't a good cricket team.
Root is the reverse Warner, in many ways. His home record is great, and he's got runs away from home but not nearly enough in the one place where it really counts. Nine half centuries for zero hundreds speaks to a real mental weakness.
But who else have they got? Ben Stokes was heartless in this series, there's no two ways about it. Playing hurt is admirable but Joe Root was crying out for support with the bat and Stokes failed him time and time again. He's had amazing highs in his career but went missing in this series, and was thoroughly outplayed by Cameron Green.
The only two others with any highs at all were Bairstow and Crawley. The common factor there was they tried to play aggressive cricket, which you really have to do to win in Australia. You could see it in Hobart, at 0/60 in the second dig Burns and Crawley were trying to push the score along. The moment they were out the brakes came on and the wickets tumbled.
The defining man of the series was Travis Head, and his two centuries came at strike rates of about 120 and about 95. Not to say that you need to go out and play T20 cricket, but you need to cash in while you can. Especially when almost all of the decks in this series favoured the bowlers.
I think you need to give the England bowlers some credit too. They all had their moments.
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@mn5 Key word being moments. They only took 20 Australian wickets in a game once, and that was on a green monster in Hobart.
So on that basis I can't give them a pass mark. They certainly troubled the batsmen at times but could never keep that energy up for more than an hour or two.
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@barbarian said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 Key word being moments. They only took 20 Australian wickets in a game once, and that was on a green monster in Hobart.
So on that basis I can't give them a pass mark. They certainly troubled the batsmen at times but could never keep that energy up for more than an hour or two.
That is a strange way of grading things. I would argue the pace bowlers were very good, even accounting for the favourable conditions you would sign up for Smith and Warner averaging sub-35 with no match winning knocks. Given they had zero scoreboard pressure to work with, a poor spinner and limited rest between the first and second innings in the final two tests they did very well. The amount of dropped catches, wickets off no balls and marginal DRS decisions especially early in the series was staggering.
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@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@barbarian said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 Key word being moments. They only took 20 Australian wickets in a game once, and that was on a green monster in Hobart.
So on that basis I can't give them a pass mark. They certainly troubled the batsmen at times but could never keep that energy up for more than an hour or two.
That is a strange way of grading things. I would argue the pace bowlers were very good, even accounting for the favourable conditions you would sign up for Smith and Warner averaging sub-35 with no match winning knocks. Given they had zero scoreboard pressure to work with, a poor spinner and limited rest between the first and second innings in the final two tests they did very well. The amount of dropped catches, wickets off no balls and marginal DRS decisions especially early in the series was staggering.
Robinson, Wood, Broad and Anderson all got their wickets at about 25 each give or take, that’s more than enough “moments” for England to have been competitive if they had a top order that even remotely came close to doing their job.
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Our Geoffrey still coming up with an opinion.
He's not far wrong and still providing entertainment value!
Rory Burns is ugly to watch. If that is the best of what English cricket has to offer then God help England, his technique you would not give to a friend. The guy has tremendous determination and guts. I take my hat off to him and full credit for everything he gets out of his batting but England need to find something better.
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Beggars belief that England didn't start with Anderson and Broad. Even if the latter is a sook who only wants to bowl in ideal conditions.
After that, Wood is the only guy I'd take from their attack without the Duke ball - all his Michelles were away venues. Shows he's got the heart.
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
Beggars belief that England didn't start with Anderson and Broad. Even if the latter is a sook who only wants to bowl in ideal conditions.
After that, Wood is the only guy I'd take from their attack without the Duke ball - all his Michelles were away venues. Shows he's got the heart.
Yeah if you’re picking a combined team who makes it ?
Root and…………..well that’s it really. As well as some of them did I can’t pick a single English bowler over their Australian counterparts.
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@mn5 why would I take Root? He was no better than anyone else 1-4 in either lineup.
Crawley looks like he's got a core worth building on. Warner posted 2 decent scores. Harris 1 important score but still too many frailties.
Warner
Crawley
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Green
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Boland12th man: Wood.
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 why would I take Root? He was no better than anyone else 1-4 in either lineup.
Crawley looks like he's got a core worth building on. Warner posted 2 decent scores. Harris 1 important score but still too many frailties.
Warner
Crawley
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Green
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Boland12th man: Wood.
Talking historically not necessarily on Ashes form.
Crawley only looked good cos he isn’t Burns or Hameed. Are you saying loose change doesn’t make it ? Crikey.
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@dogmeat said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 I was meaning over the last decade, but OK. So I'll refine my argument one sided contests between one good-very good and one laughable - good side get a bit boring.
Seriously there have been 35 tests between these two in 11 years. Don't you think it's all a bit samey?
I hear ya. It’s similar to the thousand Bledisloe matches that have occurred in the last decade. Yes there has been the odd close and exciting one and even Oz winning a few, but very samey.
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 why would I take Root? He was no better than anyone else 1-4 in either lineup.
Crawley looks like he's got a core worth building on. Warner posted 2 decent scores. Harris 1 important score but still too many frailties.
Warner
Crawley
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Green
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Boland12th man: Wood.
Maaaaaate, no one would’ve had a go if you went all Sean Fitzpatrick circa 2003 on this one. No one from England deserved to be in a combined XI. Good call on the 12th man though.
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@mn5 why would I take Root? He was no better than anyone else 1-4 in either lineup.
Crawley looks like he's got a core worth building on. Warner posted 2 decent scores. Harris 1 important score but still too many frailties.
Warner
Crawley
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Green
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Boland12th man: Wood.
Posts like this are a good reminder of why it is always dangerous to give an Aussie a pat on the back.
Bairstow outscored Carey this series in a single test. I guess you can argue that one test isn't enough of a sample size but you've gone and picked Khawaja.
Given how dominant pace bowling was this series Lyon doesn't deserve to be there (even though he was fine). Cummins was the pick for me and Boland must be included - but after that you have the rest who took 3-4 wickets a test @ 24-27. If the England batting is as terrible as we all agree then I don't see how you don't include at least one of those England bowlers - Wood, Broad or even Anderson as they faced the better batting.
Same goes for Smith over Root - given their records were very similar (although Root scored more at a higher average and quicker strikerate, with one more fifty) surely Root gets the nod as he faced what you seem to think was much better bowling?
