All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@kiwiwomble I think all round our backs just arent firing, we have often had a 2 or 3 bigger guys in our backs, whereas now, we are largely a smaller back division and dont have players to attract defence (as a runner or decoy)
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew true, but the basics for a good 9 is a good passing game, good kicking game, good defender, good organiser...Aaron is exceptional at 2 aspects of those skills, very good at another and pretty good at the other.
For me they would be ranked in this order:
1 Passing game
2 Organising
3 Kicking
4 defendingCan't disagree with any of that and Christie & Webber to me are way ahead of TJP on 1-3. Been impressed with Christie and he doesn't look out of place at Test level albeit he hasn't ben tested against top tier nations. Both way behind Nugget, but we need to give them way more game time.
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@kiwimurph I think the changing up of the lineup was inevitable with the structure of our season. 5 on the trot and then a short break and another 5 on the trot. Pretty unique when we don’t have a massive squad.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
At least with Bridge starting, he will set a target for the forwards. Likely only a few metres away after receiving the ball.
After last week's performance, I'm not sure that's a bad thing - we might actually retain more ball
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@victor-meldrew yeah is always frustrating when they bring guys in, but dont use them, and last week the thinking that TJ could close out the game rather than give Christie a run in a real test environment says it all.
BUt agreed, think Christie has looked upto it at this level and deserved to get out there last week.
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@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
He said the biggest difference was the amount of time they out into the basics - catching, passing, tackling, rucking, pushing in scrums, jumping in lineouts. He said in few short weeks in camp his basic skills had improved massively. Whereas at Super level the skills were almost assumed and a bit of afterthought, something they did as a bit of warmup before working on set piece moves and general patterns.
Then I'd suggest someone in the NZRFU should be asking bloody hard questions about the quality of coaching at Super Rugby level and how it feeds into and impacts the coaching and performance of the national team.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
He said the biggest difference was the amount of time they out into the basics - catching, passing, tackling, rucking, pushing in scrums, jumping in lineouts. He said in few short weeks in camp his basic skills had improved massively. Whereas at Super level the skills were almost assumed and a bit of afterthought, something they did as a bit of warmup before working on set piece moves and general patterns.
Then I'd suggest someone in the NZRFU should be asking bloody hard questions about the quality of coaching at Super Rugby level and how it feeds into and impacts the coaching and performance of the national team.
agreed, i know it was my point originally that they should be working on these aspects thats have been failing, but it would be a huge concern if they are doing MORE on the basics in an AB camp than in the MONTHS they are with their super teams
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
He said the biggest difference was the amount of time they out into the basics - catching, passing, tackling, rucking, pushing in scrums, jumping in lineouts. He said in few short weeks in camp his basic skills had improved massively. Whereas at Super level the skills were almost assumed and a bit of afterthought, something they did as a bit of warmup before working on set piece moves and general patterns.
Then I'd suggest someone in the NZRFU should be asking bloody hard questions about the quality of coaching at Super Rugby level and how it feeds into and impacts the coaching and performance of the national team.
That was over a decade ago if that was from 2010.
2010 was back when Foster was coaching the Chiefs so of course the skills were lacking at Super level.......
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A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
I'd suggest a big part of that is the nature of this year's congested fixture list. They'd have to have managed workloads in the camp to get through two blocks of five Tests in a row.
FWIW given injuries and workloads, I'd say this is pretty close to the best team they can put out. Paps must be sore and tired now given his efforts this far. Vaa'i needs to continue his managed introduction to get more accuracy. Taylor started the season well and has dropped off so it makes sense to me that you'd replace him with a fit Dane.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
I'd suggest a big part of that is the nature of this year's congested fixture list. They'd have to have managed workloads in the camp to get through two blocks of five Tests in a row.
FWIW given injuries and workloads, I'd say this is pretty close to the best team they can put out. Paps must be sore and tired now given his efforts this far. Vaa'i needs to continue his managed introduction to get more accuracy. Taylor started the season well and has dropped off so it makes sense to me that you'd replace him with a fit Dane.
i was winding myself up to just kick off but
you look at that side, and a fair bit screams "this is who we have left".
I'm still so pissed Savea is the one guy who can't be dropped despite being fucking average
Frizzell is a fucking joke selection.
I'm completely over DMac in the team, but that loops back to "who is left"
George Bridge? jesus.Couple of guys in teh tight 5 very lucky that there is literally no one else.
Just play hard and straight boys, please?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
I'd suggest a big part of that is the nature of this year's congested fixture list. They'd have to have managed workloads in the camp to get through two blocks of five Tests in a row.
FWIW given injuries and workloads, I'd say this is pretty close to the best team they can put out. Paps must be sore and tired now given his efforts this far. Vaa'i needs to continue his managed introduction to get more accuracy. Taylor started the season well and has dropped off so it makes sense to me that you'd replace him with a fit Dane.
i was winding myself up to just kick off but
you look at that side, and a fair bit screams "this is who we have left".
I'm still so pissed Savea is the one guy who can't be dropped despite being fucking average
Frizzell is a fucking joke selection.
I'm completely over DMac in the team, but that loops back to "who is left"
George Bridge? jesus.Preaching to the converted here.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
I'd suggest a big part of that is the nature of this year's congested fixture list. They'd have to have managed workloads in the camp to get through two blocks of five Tests in a row.
FWIW given injuries and workloads, I'd say this is pretty close to the best team they can put out. Paps must be sore and tired now given his efforts this far. Vaa'i needs to continue his managed introduction to get more accuracy. Taylor started the season well and has dropped off so it makes sense to me that you'd replace him with a fit Dane.
I think it shows that they've picked too many players they don't seem to want to play - we've hardly seen Aumua, De Groot, Ta'avao, Ennor, Sotutu, and Lord (understandable).
So, this week we've gone back to future with Bridge when we could have gone with Ennor (conceivably, giving better 13 cover), and we're still yet to see opportunities for De Groot who might be our best young prop with ball in hand. We also don't see Sotutu or Jacobson, when this test would be the ideal one (if rest is needed) to put Ardie back on the bench where he belongs.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A bit of a tale of two stories - one for the backs, where everyone paid for their errors (to the extent that injuries permit), but in the forwards it seems like they still want to trust some old heads but punish/rest a few.
- Taylor pays with his spot, despite being probably the best of the three starting front row
- Brodie gets another chance, thus Vaa'ii may be just as likely to not take the field
- Paps and Blackadder pay for doing their jobs, and the player who put in the least effort of the three gets rewarded with another test
- Frizell gets bought in to bring a big body, despite having almost zero rugby, and we've not seen him be the type of player who makes an instant impact (or much impact at all)
I don't think we'll end the year with any better idea of what our best team is, compared to before rugby kicked off in February. That says something.
I'd suggest a big part of that is the nature of this year's congested fixture list. They'd have to have managed workloads in the camp to get through two blocks of five Tests in a row.
FWIW given injuries and workloads, I'd say this is pretty close to the best team they can put out. Paps must be sore and tired now given his efforts this far. Vaa'i needs to continue his managed introduction to get more accuracy. Taylor started the season well and has dropped off so it makes sense to me that you'd replace him with a fit Dane.
I think it shows that they've picked too many players they don't seem to want to play - we've hardly seen Aumua, De Groot, Ta'avao, Ennor, Sotutu, and Lord (understandable).
So, this week we've gone back to future with Bridge when we could have gone with Ennor (conceivably, giving better 13 cover), and we're still yet to see opportunities for De Groot who might be our best young prop with ball in hand. We also don't see Sotutu or Jacobson, when this test would be the ideal one (if rest is needed) to put Ardie back on the bench where he belongs.
Ennor on the wing is a good call. Get him used to Test rugby so he can be a centre option (he's a million miles away at the moment).
Bridge is a failure at Test level and it's a waste of a spot. Problem solves itself when Clarke comes back next year, but for this weekend going back to Bridge just means no attack from his wing.
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@frank said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can only assume Frizell there to allow extra physicality in last 20, if required.
LOL
Could tell him that the French identify as women? Will get pretty physical then.
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@gt12 Are you being serious with those charges? Just looks like the whole squad is being managed through a long arduous program and opportunities given on merit for the commitment made and rest given where required. The rotation seems largely planned around who the opposition is and not about playing the supposed top xv each week regardless of circumstances.
If you are serious then I would hate to be in any squad you are involved in. Just flog your favourites and deny others opportunities when they are selected.
I don't care if we lose the odd match when we are building depth and combinations and giving fair opportunities to those selected to improve their experience in international conditions with different refereeing styles and constant hometown scrutiny of possible incidents while playing away from home and covid restrictions on the usual touring activities and distancing from friends and family.
So I totally disagree with the criticism of selections when this management crew has probably had the biggest challenge of the professional era in keeping the players motivated and unified as a team. Just witness the Lions tours issues with the dirt trackers for a comparison. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it shows that they've picked too many players they don't seem to want to play - we've hardly seen Aumua, De Groot, Ta'avao, Ennor, Sotutu, and Lord (understandable).
For some of those players there seems to be a valid reason (from the outside). Aumua was originally selected as the 3rd hooker but has clearly been overtaken by Taukei’aho. The fact that Coles was taken on this tour meant 4 hookers was always going to be one too many once he joined the squad. Ta'avao has been injured in recent weeks so wasn't available for selection.
As I said, I would have picked de Groot for this test. Bower, like Ta'avao, seems to be a placeholder. Sotutu or Jacobson should have been on the bench instead of Frizell (who shouldn't be there to begin with) - that's on Foster and Plumtree.
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Sotutu or Jacobson havent had a fair go this tour. Both decent players
