All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha.How is it Foster's fault that players are missing tackles exactly? He can prepare them how best he can, but if they can't execute the basics there's not much he can do.
ABs, even though put under severe pressure had 4 really good try scoring opportunities in that game (Barrett chance at beginning, Taylor try, Jordan try, Ioane non-try), and a couple of clear breaks that may have resulted in more with better decision making. ABs took 2 of those chances, and Ireland were lucky not to get a YC after the Ioane non-try for POM cynically killing the ball right on the try line.
For a side so under the pump, that's not a bad thing to realise. Opportunities are being created at least. It would be even more worrying if ABs were creating nothing. It means teams have to raise their levels of intensity to extremes to stop the ABs from having enough opportunities. That means the ABs now have to meet that challenge and raise their own game to match or better that intensity. It is this challenge that drives the standards of the game on to greater heights.
Final thought - Ireland were annihilated by NZ 2 years ago at the WC, 46-14, and never looked like winning. NZ were annihilated 29-20 according to reports, yet had a chance to win late in the game. I've seen ABs teams under McCaw take similar beatings against SA but end up winning. Nobody saw issues with the gameplan or players then, even though the pack were getting dealt to at times.
Maybe its because Foster is in control of the environment has a bad coaching record,And there seems as a lot of people including 3 Ab,s on Breakdown mentioned no game plan nothing has changed to combat these teams like Ireland ,SA, England etc.
the coach sets the tone for performance that's why he is there fix the problems Foster don't just point fingers at the players all the time.Thats great for the players confidence its bad coaching and it will get worse as Foster tries to hold on to his Job.
He is Head Coach if he is not responsible for a teams performance what is he there for. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.But remember these guys haven't benefited from the Crusaders environment, or Robertson's coaching, so we shouldn't we cut them some slack....?
I am glad you are starting to see the Light.And see your Son Ian is really quite Shit.
Coach is the problem not so much the players.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.But remember these guys haven't benefited from the Crusaders environment, or Robertson's coaching, so we shouldn't we cut them some slack....?
Laulala has hasn't he? And BBBR grew up in that environment before he moved to the Bay and was made a man. But I don't think either were coached by Jesus Robertson.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
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“At this point he hasn’t trained fully. He did a bit of jogging today (Tuesday in Paris), so he hasn’t completed all his protocols yet. He’s in doubt, I would say,” said the All Blacks assistant coach. In other words, it’s Richie Mo’unga back at No 10.
Aaron Smith will also surely join him in the halves (all four No 9s are available), with Plumtree making it clear there would be a price to pay for last week’s shortcomings. There will surely be tweaks in the front row, too (the starters missed nine tackles between them and were overshadowed by the skilful Irish), maybe the loose and in midfield where Quinn Tupaea and David Havili vie for the vacant 12 jersey.
“There are going to be some changes,” said Plumtree. “It’s our last game of a 15-game programme, it’s been a long trip and hopefully we can get our game going around momentum, get some gain-line … if we can do that we’ll cause some big problems for them.”
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NZ by 11-16
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
HaHaHa
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Starting or not, I'd like to see Tupaea given a good bit of the game. Not ideal as he'd be with pretty inexperienced partners but it's as good a time as any. Perhaps give more game time to Vai'a as well.
Interesting to see if Cane plays and the balance of the loose trio
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards.
I think Ireland looked great on Saturday because 12 of their starting players play for Leinster and are international quality players. When in camp with Ireland, they can focus on new game plans and specific tactics, knowing who they are playing with and trusting them implicitly.
The ABs used to have this same feel. But now, the front row unit doesn't feel settled. The locks are, but one is certainly undercooked post-sabbatical. The back row has no cohesion whatsoever. The halves without Smith aren't firing, although Weber has had his moments. The midfield is a major problem. The back 3 was beginning to take shape IMO (Jordan, Ioane, Barrett), but now is disrupted again.
So if there's anything to take Foster, the coaches and the selectors on about, it is the rotation. It is fine when you have similar players that you can slot in, but when you don't, you have to leave them in the team to forge the combinations. Either select provincial combinations that work well, or leave the team alone to develop. The problem with the latter is that you can only do it for 2-3 games in a row, but for AB players, this should be enough.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
It seems it’s throw your arms in the air and point fingers is the Foster way.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
What if he did and they just had a bad game because they hadn't played in a game with that intensity for a while with that sort of febrile atmosphere? You guys take it for granted that AB players will just perform. That was a cauldron on Saturday. It galvanised the Irish. Like the Anfield effect with Liverpool.
If Ireland play like that in the 6N away, I'll take note.
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@stodders in fairness....the passing and tackling has been an issue all season
was it the first SA test where we were talking about how slow/messy/disjointed the ball was from TJ through BB, was hardly getting past 12
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
As AB coach you'd have to work with what you've got and obviously iron out any deficiencies on expected skills at that level. Imagine you'd set targets and expect the players to meet them just as they do with nutrition. Hopefully there's feedback to the lower levels so the standards are kept to the right level.
It's not new. I recall Colin Meads calling out provincial coaches for not doing their jobs properly on what he thought were basic skills so the same should hold true now.
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@victor-meldrew look, as i say i agree in general....i just think trying to persist with an open counter attack game plan when several of the team are passing so poorly or giving away so much ball when we're getting picked up on the regular for poor tackling....is a pretty damning indictment
I would expect a coach of that level to go "shit...i thought you guys would be better and be able to handle this game plan...you cant so lets pivot, work on some basics, come up with an approach that doesn't pay on our weaknesses"
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
As AB coach you'd have to work with what you've got and obviously iron out any deficiencies on expected skills at that level.
As a non-international coach of very little repute, I just dial the training back a step to ensure they're focusing on timing and execution. At that level I'd imagine the review would identify if it's a drill issue or the players themselves would acknowledge and respond accordingly.
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
As AB coach you'd have to work with what you've got and obviously iron out any deficiencies on expected skills at that level.
As a non-international coach of very little repute, I just dial the training back a step to ensure they're focusing on timing and execution. At that level I'd imagine the review would identify if it's a drill issue or the players themselves would acknowledge and respond accordingly.
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
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