All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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My first thoughts after watching the game and without reading the thread.
Well this has been a terrible 24 hours of rugby for me. TBH, this loss didn't hurt as much as normal as I used up all my anxiety, stress and anger on the Magpies game (not helped by my Of Plenty mate sending me a loop of the forward pass try by the Invitational Baabaas Chequebook XV).
Weird that a NH ref said that a tackle in the air was only slightly in the air.
The defence on the line by the ABs late in the first half was outstanding. Also Rieko tackles like a demon, I think it's an overlooked part of his game.
Johnny Sexton takes his kick offs past the halfway line. Clearly doesn't matter in the wider scheme of things but still odd nonetheless.
The All Blacks kicking game was so average. It was just hoist a kick and hope for the best and it was a day when the best was Ireland winding up with the ball in a better position than us.
Nice play for the Jordan try by him, Rieko and Havilli with a cracking pass.
Some of the ruck penalties in the game were B/S. The match winning one O'Mahoney just lay straight on Rieko.
Whitelock's captaincy is talked up on various forums, I don't think it was very good in this match. I think taking the 3 after the Ioane bro's try was ruled out was the wrong decision, we needed to keep going for a try and we were having trouble clearing from our end of the field.
Ireland reminded me of the 03 Blues at times with the way they run close to the ball carrier and take offloads. Have to give them credit for the way they played.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Sickens me all the cowards who accept Foster as inevitable till after 2023. He can be gone by tomorrow if not for them.
Which cowards are these? I don't see anyone here happy with Foster. But our opinion doesn't matter anyway. The NZRFU don't care what we think, or they would have chosen Razor
Disagree with the Foster comment, that's a separate discussion. He's not flawless - a damn good coach, but not the messiah.
The bigger issue is that Foster got reappointed for 2 more years before this tour. We traversed it at the time in some detail; it was a weak decision. Bet NZR aren't so stoked now.
Deeper than Foster though is the insularity of NZ rugby. Feels very monocultural, innovation becoming frowned on, and we seem to want all the same style of players in all our professional teams. Big wins don't disguise the fact that good, physical sides (SA, Lions, Ireland, England and even Argentina) have had our number for some time, and we haven't stepped up.
Also, NH rugby has really lifted since 2015. They had to get better and they did. Players are now coming back from NH with enhanced skills, fitness and physicality. Super and RC are no longer the dominant premier competitions. IT's a real worry for me - that's the long term success right there; not just the current situation.
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Well done Ireland that was awesome. I loved watching you play. Hard, physical, inventive. Absolutely dominant everywhere except the scoreboard which flattered us all day. The constant ball in motion was confusing the AB defence all day, and your breakdown work was friggen excellent. A deserved dominant win built on good work both sides of the ball.
As for the ABS, fucking LOL. Talk about hammered boy. Picking an entire side of guys who can't make a dominant tackle, or get over the gain line, or be physical at the breakdown is certainly one way to play. Was the plan to confuse them by letting them have too much ball? We could not stop them doing what they wanted. Conversely when we had the ball we could do shit because we couldn't get past the gain line
So we kicked it, poorly. Over and over again. Because that's all that Ireland gave us.
Scored a couple of really pretty tries though. Jordan's a fucking star. The first was a hilarious piece of defence we ruthlessly exploited. The 2nd came out of absolute nothing.
The loose forwards were shit. They should be embarrassed the only guy who put a hit on was fucking TJP. Savea is just a non-entity in a game like this. Just a waste of space. The other two tried but just didn't have the ability.
This is humbling and shows exactly where we are. Which is nowhere.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwimurph yep we have learnt nothing in the past 5 years, our play has stagnated.
Our attack is poor, our defence is poor, our phase play is poor, our cohesion is poor.
Since being exposed to a well drilled rush defence in 2016 and largely struggling to unlock it ever since, why is it we haven't employed it over the passive pattern we have used for at least 2 years now...
Not so sure that our defence is poor. It is a different style though and teams that don't make errors can do OK against it. We actively look to isolate and turn over possession then use it against an unset defence.
If the opposition play well and don't make errors though we are the ones that end up under pressure.We also continue to shoehorn players into positions.
Play Ardie at 7 ffs, play an 8 at 8...
I have no idea why Jacobsen has lost the eye of the coaches. Only thought is what you say. Trying to have DP and Ardie playing together.
need to be looking at all the 12s in super next year and really invest in them, and pick someone who is playing 12.
Tupaea has shown promise but not enough to say I'm the answer.
DH was a stopgap and Tupaea is a project. We need to persist with Tupaea, get Goodhue back and hope the Canes see fit to play PUJ
Why have all our props lost those soft skills and the ability to run?
Because they keep selecting the ancient ones (see your next point)
We also need to recognise when a player is done and unable to do the job consistently.
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@mariner4life I think we do (aside from lacking ball running props) think how they are being coached to play in whatever patterns they have to play within is a huge issue, both sides of the.ball.
A 7 playing 8, 2 6.5s at 7 and 6, a 11 at 13, a 13 at 12, a 15 at 12.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
As for the ABS, fucking LOL. Talk about hammered boy. Picking an entire side of guys who can't make a dominant tackle, or get over the gain line, or be physical at the breakdown is certainly one way to play. Was the plan to confuse them by letting them have too much ball? We could not stop them doing what they wanted. Conversely when we had the ball we could do shit because we couldn't get past the gain line
It's rather frustrating to see the ABs continually playing the Highlanders' "make 200 tackles, and one in three games we'll get lucky and win because the opposition will make a lot of mistakes" game plan.
Thats the plan to go along with selecting three open-sides, two has-been locks, and three plodders in the front row. The Highlanders tend to be more aggressive at the ruck, and have better line speed, though.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Savea is just a non-entity in a game like this.
Massively overrated ... in New Zealand. Not going to hit rucks physically, or do much off static ball.
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Glad I got up at 5am to watch that before the kids woke up.
What fucking balls, complete comedy. Ireland were really, really good, no doubt. Get everything out of their guys., earned everything they got.
We are the total opposite, determined to play pretty rugby and expect a superstar moment to bring it home every time.
Set piece sucked, defense was passive, attack not direct. Why are we so unable to kick for corners and pressure set piece? Why can't we show some patience and string together more than 3 phases before a fucking cross kick?
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@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
The constant fuck up here is the Coaching staff.
The only team we seem to have a good game plan against is Australia.
Our defence is passive, our forward positioning, use, and selection is poor, and our attack and structure haven't changed for about 8 years.
We are poorly coached, and have the same problems as every other year.
Totall agree , it’s going to bad until after the WC by the looks of things,
This 4 year cycle between WCs wasted.Our loose trio (Ardie excepted) have promise but are young and inexperienced. Tight 5 are not the force they once were. We lack a dominant controlling 10 and our midfield is a puzzle yet to be solved. Lean days for ABs supporters right now
We could have Dan Carter there and we'd still be farked. What options do our 10s have? They get zero time or space. So they can hold on and get smashed, pop it to a forward to get smashed behind the gain line or throw it wide and always risk an intercept. BB and RM would have blown their load at the service and options Sexton had.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim would be fine if he started at 7 with a ball running 8 and a physically punishing 6.
Would be a lot better coming off the bench when the game opens up.
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Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
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@mariner4life We were poor against Wales B last week, our forwards in the first half particularly. Yet everyone in the media and elsewhere stroked themselves off over a poor win over a poor team.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Wow, that is how you play rugby, Ireland take a bow, that was a pleasure to watch. That blueprint it how we should be playing the game.
We don't have the players
Same was said in 2004 when Henry took over. I think Foster needs to allow combinations to settle. Gone are the days when the ABs could field 2 different XVs on consecutive weekends.
Somehow NZ were within a fwd pass of taking the lead in a game they had been dominated in both in possession and territory. I don't know of another team that can roll with the punches like them. It is uncanny. There is still pride in the jersey at least.
Changes for next game with 2023 in mind - Taukei'aho at hooker, de Groot at LH prop, persist with Vai'i at lock (Scott Barrett still to come back who has probably been NZs best lock this year), Ioane at 6, Cane/Papali'i at 7, Savea/Sotutu at 8.
If Barrett is injured, Mo'unga will start. Christie or Weber to start with him with Smith on the bench as insurance.
Midfield. Who knows. ALB should play. I think R Ioane is a world class wing, but not a WC centre. He shouldn't be playing for the ABs as a centre until he reaches that level. I'd like to see Tupaea and ALB as the centre pairing, with both instructed to run hard and hold the ball. No risky passes. Just run it up the guts and get across the advantage line to give the forwards a chance to take ball on the front foot.
Back 3 - Barrett, Jordan, Ioane.
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@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
