All Blacks EOYT 2021
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I think the problems run way deeper than Havili at 12. The problems have been there since the Lions. I used to blame SBW for stifling the backline, but the issues have remained.
Buggered if I know the answer though.
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@crucial said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
The upshot is that the video highlights that Havili is either a stopgap measure or a work in progress.
I guess that I haven’t previously watched him closely, just watched when he was involved.
He’s quite lost at times.
That Jordan try came after what looks like a horrible pass from BB but he was passing to Havili who didn’t come onto the ball
Will be interesting to see how they move or persist in the 12 jersey.LOL, you conclude that from two seconds of a YT clip from an anonymous pundit that doesn't prove anything and who even specifically says in that video (in the text) that Havili wasn't the only one standing in the wrong position during that test? And BB's pass went to no one; if you actually listen, it sounds like Akira was asking for it, so Havili also wouldn't have expected it when the ball basically went in-between him and Akira. It was a horrible pass.
On top of that, it's Havili's first year playing at 12, give the guy some time. He's been excellent against all other opposition.
No the video highlighted something that I went back to check.
Of course Havili is new to the position, I'm not criticising him for doing a job he wasn't planning to do or expecting him to be a top 12 in his first year.
I am saying that it isn't working as well as it could be and that could be why the rest of the phase attack is struggling. The coaches still saw him as the best option and I am wondering if that view may change after a prolonged period to assess.I think ALB/RI is something to explore if they don't have confidence in Tupaea for the big games.
The problem with that is that you then return to the much-criticised inconsistency in selections, because you're shifing ALB from 13 to 12 and are partnering him with someone he's never played in combo with. I'd rather they stick with the current combo's (to which Goodhue is likely to be added next year) and give Tupaea starts and more game time against the lesser opponents, so he can develop, too. Also don't forget that Havili was the player making most tackles of any back in both games against S Africa. Defence is a huge part of his role and he does it well. It's only his attack against the Saffa type opponent that needs some work, but by the looks of it, that applies to almost the entire ABs team.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
it's Havili's first year playing at 12, give the guy some time.
people dont like waiting.
Yep, and like to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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@crazy-horse part of it is none of them are Nonu...I think Havili has done a reasonable job, similarly I thought Goodhue did a reasonable job playing an attacking role more suited to Laumape (if Laumpae had Goodhues brain and defence)
Are a few young guys coming through who could be options, ALB is probably the best option at present IMO, but filling the Nonu void is huge, coupled with getting the right balance with the 13.
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@taniwharugby I think part of the problem is that everyone keeps comparing every potential ABs 12 with Nonu. No one compares ALB (for example) with Conrad Smith. ALB is ALB, and no one calls him "the new Conrad Smith". Crotty was probably the player who came closest to being like CS,; not at 13 but at 12. If anything, Havili is quite crottyesque and can hopefully become just as good.
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ALB isn't going to be playing much at 2nd 5 for the Chiefs in the future, whether in combination with Tupaea or Nankivell.
Remember that Umaga moved from winger to centre but also played at 2nd 5. Trying Rieko at 12 might be worth looking at. While he won't get as much space compared to centre he can be a direct runner, and there are less decisions to be made defensively.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
Havili is quite crottyesque and can hopefully become just as good
if we're going anywhere he needs to be way better than that
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@stargazer said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@stargazer said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
it's Havili's first year playing at 12, give the guy some time.
people dont like waiting.
Yep, and like to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Definitely one of my favourite hobbies
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@nevorian James Botham is the grandson of Ian? God, I feel old.
Is his nickname Beefy too ? I’m assuming he’s Liams son, Liam is my age.
I feel old too.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@nevorian James Botham is the grandson of Ian? God, I feel old.
Is his nickname Beefy too ? I’m assuming he’s Liams son, Liam is my age.
I feel old too.
Son of Liam, called "Jimbo" or 'The Duke', not heavy at all for his height, obv thinks ahead because his gf is a physio.
Here endeth the Welsh hot cheese sauce.
Oh and his grandfather wears a red not white shirt when he's playing.
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Pivac was considered a disaster early on. The fans wanted him out early on.
To your second point, I have been saying that for a while. The coaching drain is having a bigger impact than the player drain - it affects all levels of rugby in NZ.
I don't think fozzie gets into the top 5 NZ coaches around the globe. Maybe scrapes into the top 10
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Reiko would be a waste at 12.
I believe he has had a much better year at 13 but was far better on the wing. great to see him back to his best this year.
It was clear Laumape wasn't favoured by this regime or the previous regime.
He would have been a far better option at 12 than a converted fullback for us. cest le vie
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@cgrant said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@frye said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
Ardie at 12.
Let's goWhy not Dane Coles then ?
Dunno, is this a trick question? Because he's old as shit?
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@dagrubster said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
Reiko would be a waste at 12.
I believe he has had a much better year at 13 but was far better on the wing. great to see him back to his best this year.
I'm not saying I want this to happen, just that if you want a midfielder that gets you over the advantage line Rieko would be the player who could do that out of all the other experienced options.
As to Laumape, he was never as effective at test level than in SR, although only started in 7 tests of the 15 he played.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
@dagrubster said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
Reiko would be a waste at 12.
I believe he has had a much better year at 13 but was far better on the wing. great to see him back to his best this year.
I'm not saying I want this to happen, just that if you want a midfielder that gets you over the advantage line Rieko would be the player who could do that out of all the other experienced options.
As to Laumape, he was never as effective at test level than in SR, although only started in 7 tests of the 15 he played.
I stand by my position that Laumape never got a chance to perform to his ability in the black jersey. Did everything he could within the confines of what was asked of him, but never got the chance to run straight and hard at a weak shoulder. And don't try suggest he's 'too small for international rugby'. He was a solid unit, and a nightmare to tackle.
No I don't have my receipts.
Yes the burden of proof should probably be on me.
Don't care. Ngani was robbed, and so were the paying public. I'm going to be annoyed about this for a good while yet, judging by the current midfield crop. -
@delicatessen said in All Blacks EOYT 2021:
I stand by my position that Laumape never got a chance to perform to his ability in the black jersey
is a tough one really, I know early in Nonu's career plenty wanted him dropped, but Laumape was older and still lacked some of the finesse Nonu showed early on and then developed further.
I personally think he was only ever going to be a decent 12 at Int level, no better or worse than we have currently, I also dont think his ceiling was much higher at this level too, so maybe that was why he wasnt given more opportunities?
