All Blacks vs Springboks I
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@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
pretty concerning, Fozzies selections (until recently) and lack of game plans have been big question marks over the last year...and now the basics are failing
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
pretty concerning, Fozzies selections (until recently) and lack of game plans have been big question marks over the last year...and now the basics are failing
How's things chicken little?
We have shown over the past months that we do have a good set piece and plans. The other night we saw players put under a pressure and style that they aren't used to and it showed. SA are a set piece team. This isn't failing basics, it is being tested at the highest level by the best.
We made errors and faltered at times but can only improve by learning.
The handling mistakes when not under pressure are more concerning. That is a player problem and IS a basic failing.. Coaching doesn't make a player run a close support line and not be ready to catch a ball passed at his chest (Akira).
I think this was a great game for our development and wish that we had some like it in the lead up to the last RWC. Players have learned that when against an opposition playing like this they have to be extra careful on accuracy. You can tell them that all you like but like a kid wanting to touch something hot sometimes they have to do so for the message to sink in. -
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
pretty concerning, Fozzies selections (until recently) and lack of game plans have been big question marks over the last year...and now the basics are failing
How's things chicken little?
We have shown over the past months that we do have a good set piece and plans. The other night we saw players put under a pressure and style that they aren't used to and it showed. SA are a set piece team. This isn't failing basics, it is being tested at the highest level by the best.
We made errors and faltered at times but can only improve by learning.
The handling mistakes when not under pressure are more concerning. That is a player problem and IS a basic failing.. Coaching doesn't make a player run a close support line and not be ready to catch a ball passed at his chest (Akira).
I think this was a great game for our development and wish that we had some like it in the lead up to the last RWC. Players have learned that when against an opposition playing like this they have to be extra careful on accuracy. You can tell them that all you like but like a kid wanting to touch something hot sometimes they have to do so for the message to sink in.That is the stuff i was meaning but i disagree coaching has not effect on things like running close support lines, i think how we set up out pods and what each person's role in the pod is is exactly what should be getting coached, we spent lots of time at club level doing it, surely professionals with all day to train spend time on it too
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
pretty concerning, Fozzies selections (until recently) and lack of game plans have been big question marks over the last year...and now the basics are failing
How's things chicken little?
We have shown over the past months that we do have a good set piece and plans. The other night we saw players put under a pressure and style that they aren't used to and it showed. SA are a set piece team. This isn't failing basics, it is being tested at the highest level by the best.
We made errors and faltered at times but can only improve by learning.
The handling mistakes when not under pressure are more concerning. That is a player problem and IS a basic failing.. Coaching doesn't make a player run a close support line and not be ready to catch a ball passed at his chest (Akira).
I think this was a great game for our development and wish that we had some like it in the lead up to the last RWC. Players have learned that when against an opposition playing like this they have to be extra careful on accuracy. You can tell them that all you like but like a kid wanting to touch something hot sometimes they have to do so for the message to sink in.That is the stuff i was meaning but i disagree coaching has not effect on things like running close support lines, i think how we set up out pods and what each person's role in the pod is is exactly what should be getting coached, we spent lots of time at club level doing it, surely professionals with all day to train spend time on it too
If a player runs a support line and isn't ready to possibly catch the ball that ain't on the coaches.
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@crucial i think it is a little when we see it as much as we did but im more worried about how often we saw support runners running past the tackled player leaving them exposed to a turn over, for me that shows there is a lack of understanding of the gameplan, which is up to the coach to make sure is crystal clear
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Haven't scrolled through all 91 pages, but I will offer my perspective as a neutral.
1 vs 2. Heavyweight bout. Champ vs contender. Historic rivals in game 100. And...
The game was pus. Absolute shite. Reminiscent of watching the Force vs the Rebels in 2017, though that probably does those teams a dis-service as at least they had a fkn crack.
The fault obviously rests with South Africa. They can get in the sea. It's rugby at it's worst. Kick kick kick. Maul maul maul. Tackle tackle tackle. Whinge whinge whinge.
The sad thing is it worked. Almost worked. But they shouldn't be happy with that result, as the All Blacks played the worst they have all year and they still couldn't win. I wouldn't be happy with that if it was the Wallabies. They made a thousand errors, not through ferocious Bok defence either. Soft, unforced errors that they won't make next game.
And as many have mentioned here it's made worse by the fact that they are a really talented side. I love Nkosi and Mapimpi but they haven't been able to do squat this RC because of the tactics employed. And it wasn't like this tactic won them the World Cup, they were far more ambitious in Japan. They are fighting with one hand behind their back, though it's not helped by the fact that Handre Pollard is by far the worst player of any team in International rugby this year.
So I say this to Foster and the ABs. Please beat them by 90 this week. Please. I need this. We all do. Even South Africa needs it, so they can change course from whatever they are doing right now.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Not sure about the subs, but actual realistic points. Unlike NZH all around 6 and 7
Yeah that was pretty spot on except for Jordan. He did some good things but farked up several times. Not Bridge bad but pretty farking close to it.
See article below highlights work at the breakdown as not being good enough. Not totally a loose forward thing but you would think a criticism of Ardie and Akira given positive comments on Blackadder.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
pretty concerning, Fozzies selections (until recently) and lack of game plans have been big question marks over the last year...and now the basics are failing
How's things chicken little?
We have shown over the past months that we do have a good set piece and plans. The other night we saw players put under a pressure and style that they aren't used to and it showed. SA are a set piece team. This isn't failing basics, it is being tested at the highest level by the best.
We made errors and faltered at times but can only improve by learning.
The handling mistakes when not under pressure are more concerning. That is a player problem and IS a basic failing.. Coaching doesn't make a player run a close support line and not be ready to catch a ball passed at his chest (Akira).
I think this was a great game for our development and wish that we had some like it in the lead up to the last RWC. Players have learned that when against an opposition playing like this they have to be extra careful on accuracy. You can tell them that all you like but like a kid wanting to touch something hot sometimes they have to do so for the message to sink in.Twice Retallic in pod should have given the pass but held onto it and then passed later when the gaps had closed. Combine that with 2 early penalties for 6 points and it was not his best game.
Even Jordie dropped a sitter when he was running into a hole.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Haven't scrolled through all 91 pages, but I will offer my perspective as a neutral.
1 vs 2. Heavyweight bout. Champ vs contender. Historic rivals in game 100. And...
The game was pus. Absolute shite. Reminiscent of watching the Force vs the Rebels in 2017, though that probably does those teams a dis-service as at least they had a fkn crack.
The fault obviously rests with South Africa. They can get in the sea. It's rugby at it's worst. Kick kick kick. Maul maul maul. Tackle tackle tackle. Whinge whinge whinge.
The sad thing is it worked. Almost worked. But they shouldn't be happy with that result, as the All Blacks played the worst they have all year and they still couldn't win. I wouldn't be happy with that if it was the Wallabies. They made a thousand errors, not through ferocious Bok defence either. Soft, unforced errors that they won't make next game.
And as many have mentioned here it's made worse by the fact that they are a really talented side. I love Nkosi and Mapimpi but they haven't been able to do squat this RC because of the tactics employed. And it wasn't like this tactic won them the World Cup, they were far more ambitious in Japan. They are fighting with one hand behind their back, though it's not helped by the fact that Handre Pollard is by far the worst player of any team in International rugby this year.
So I say this to Foster and the ABs. Please beat them by 90 this week. Please. I need this. We all do. Even South Africa needs it, so they can change course from whatever they are doing right now.
All of this.
Hatiest game of Rugby I have ever watched. I've enjoyed watching us get absolutely hosed more than I enjoyed that. At least when you get pumped one side is playing pretty rugby.
That game was a disgrace and embarrassment to international rugby and the fault lies directly with South Africa.
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@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
Yes - scrumming I actually thought we were good but lost refs call. It happens. Lineouts is about tactics and accuracy- bad night for us but fixable. But breakdowns is the one where we were truely owned I think and will be harder to fix. Not impossible. Getting players cleaning out, runners getting over the advantage line, body positions, placement of ball. Might require a change in lineup.
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@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The All Blacks forwards struggled in this test. Scrumming, line outs and breakdowns were a massive problem. Can Foster fix this in a week.
Yes - scrumming I actually thought we were good but lost refs call. It happens. Lineouts is about tactics and accuracy- bad night for us but fixable. But breakdowns is the one where we were truely owned I think and will be harder to fix. Not impossible. Getting players cleaning out, runners getting over the advantage line, body positions, placement of ball. Might require a change in lineup.
I agree about the srummaging. Once it became clear the ref was not consistent we should have been taking every point we could get
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
De Allender passed the ball once for the match. Am passed the ball once for the match. Faf passed it half the number of times that TJP did.
Boks had 52% possession for the match.
But I bet Fafs 50% of passes were 100% more effective than TJs
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
we should have been taking every point we could get
will hopefully also be one of the LEARNINGS we take from this game, take the points when on offer.
Once a team playing as SA did are chasing it, things will open up hugely.
If fit, I'd be starting Dalton over Blackadder, who played well, but I think Dalton just adds a bit more than Blackadder, but assuming Jacobson is fit, he will slot back to 8 and Ardie to 7, meaning Dalton and Blackadder contesting for that bench spot.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
we should have been taking every point we could get
will hopefully also be one of the LEARNINGS we take from this game, take the points when on offer.
Once a team playing as SA did are chasing it, things will open up hugely.
Yup
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
we should have been taking every point we could get
will hopefully also be one of the LEARNINGS we take from this game, take the points when on offer.
Once a team playing as SA did are chasing it, things will open up hugely.
Yup
That's why I don't criticise Ardie for going for a try. We were in attacking position and they were under penalty pressure. IF the gap had opened by a try that would have given us a real advantage in managing the game.
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Not my observation but I read somewhere ( Rugby Pass (?)), playing Ardie and Akira together may be problematic because they are similar players. They have obvious strengths but don't hit rucks and move bodies like other options at loose forward.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Not my observation but I read somewhere ( Rugby Pass (?)), playing Ardie and Akira together may be problematic because they are similar players. They have obvious strengths but don't hit rucks and move bodies like other options at loose forward.
I agree. I actually have changed my mind on the loose forward combo. Agree with the reasoning above. Ardie and Akira are both primarily attacking ball runners (though certainly capable of turnovers)
I think Foster might replace Akira with Blackadder at 6. Blackadder has been outstanding in the last two games and we need more speed at the breakdown. I also prefer Jacobson over Ardie at 8, but because Ardie is captain, he is undroppable.
If Akira is to be retained, his physical presence has to be utilized more on attack.
Papalii should be at 7, Jabobson at 8 and Blackadder at 6.
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@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Not sure about the subs, but actual realistic points. Unlike NZH all around 6 and 7
Yeah that was pretty spot on except for Jordan. He did some good things but farked up several times. Not Bridge bad but pretty farking close to it.
See article below highlights work at the breakdown as not being good enough. Not totally a loose forward thing but you would think a criticism of Ardie and Akira given positive comments on Blackadder.
The balance was off IMHO. The best combo is DP, LJ and Akira.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Not my observation but I read somewhere ( Rugby Pass (?)), playing Ardie and Akira together may be problematic because they are similar players. They have obvious strengths but don't hit rucks and move bodies like other options at loose forward.
Ardie is a renowned ruck watcher, holding off until he can get a turnover which is what you want from someone playing openside - making decisions about opportunity and effort. Akira does hit rucks but the problem is where our loose forwards are positioned in our patterns. I said during the game that our tight five wasn't being effective.
