All Blacks vs Pumas II

Bones

@nostrildamus you should see my mighty hunt.

African Monkey

@african-monkey said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@bones Yeah, credit goes to Plumtree for me. The forwards look great with everyone putting their hand up. The Fiji tests i feel was a real good wake up call for the side where found out a lot about the side which is quite funny as a lot of people were slating the series, but it did quite the opposite for this team.

Maybe Fiji were actually quite good?

Yeah, they were, and it exposed a few of our players, as well as show who were the better players in our squad.

African Monkey

@tim Hansen's spell from 2017-2019 was a disaster. He was exposed badly and ran the team into the ground, not that anyone seemed to care or take notice. Everyone just took his word as gospel (fans and media). He made some absolute howlers in that time and it has taken a little while to build the team back to where it should be, but we're getting there, cleaning up the mess that Hansen left the side in.

Victor Meldrew

@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@bones Buddy, if you watched 2018 NPC and didn't realise the quality of Akira Ioane, then you would be beyond help.

Don't think anyone doubted his quality, more his attitude.

Victor Meldrew

@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?

Hunt submarines?

Victor Meldrew

@african-monkey said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@tim Hansen's spell from 2017-2019 was a disaster. He was exposed badly and ran the team into the ground, not that anyone seemed to care or take notice. Everyone just took his word as gospel (fans and media). He made some absolute howlers in that time and it has taken a little while to build the team back to where it should be, but we're getting there, cleaning up the mess that Hansen left the side in.

You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.

Fozzie seem to have building a good squad (I'm reserving judgement until we beat the Boks) but the way he's turned around players like Akira, looked for stability in key areas and developed depth in a lot of positions can't be denied.

African Monkey

@victor-meldrew And his plans for getting us over the line were a disaster. He made some shocking selections to go with some shocking game plans. He was all over the place it can't be denied. 3 opensides and Scott Barrett at 6 in the match day 23 in a WC semi, with an incredible Brodie Retallick? What a clown. 2 first fives starting, a midfield combo that seemed to change every week, Kieran Read being kept on for about 4 years too long, don't get me started on Akira, his treatment towards him was a disgrace and he failed him miserably (something Henry wouldn't have done) as he ended up picking about 96 loosies who were never long term options at test level with Liam Squire seen as the man to be the 6 going forward which he never was, only to drop him before the WC, Jordie Barrett on the wing with George Bridge and Steve Reece, with Rieko Ioane being left out after an average test leading up to the world cup. The more I think about it, the more I think how much of a failure Hansen really was in the last few years as coach.

He only escaped criticism because of the team from 2012-2015 being possibly the best side we'll ever see in Black.

Sorry to ramble on about the past on a different topic haha.

Billy Tell

From what I saw George bridge made a knock on. He had otherwise had a solid but unspectacular match. 7/10. Would not be surprised to see him named vs SA he is good in the air.

Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players. However the try was only on in the first place because of his step and speed. I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.

nzzp

@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.

I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.

nzzp

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.

My opinion of his 2016-2019 work has been tainted by what happened afterwards. He wanted to quit in 2017, and I did not want him to. In hindsight, it would probably have been the best option.

canefan

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.

My opinion of his 2016-2019 work has been tainted by what happened afterwards. He wanted to quit in 2017, and I did not want him to. In hindsight, it would probably have been the best option.

I agree. I can't recall many people calling for him to step down in 2017. As it turned out maybe he'd lost a step mentally

akan004

@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.

Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.

L_n_P

I just rewatched with from start to finish so brief (not really!) thoughts on players ... my top 2 were probably Blackadder and Jordie.

Ethan Blackadder was fricken huge in the forwards. Even though I love Paps and have a slight Blues eye patch Blackadder's workrate and game was fantastic ... dominant tackling, lineout, linking well, doing the dirty stuff. Played like a 7/6 (which is how Paps plays tbh). I simply could not see 4 missed tackles, I saw one which was marginal and when the AB's were completely sliced open. He was out on his feet by 70-75 minutes. I'm so impressed.

Ardie was good but please keep him competing at 8 in the "A" team. I don't feel he's a better seven than Paps, Cane and on that evidence maybe Blackadder too. Hit quite a few rucks, tackled in his normal "half-dominant" scraggy style, ran well out wide.

Sotutu was silky smooth, lovely skills, but ... nothing new there? Jury is out for me still though because he needs to be tested defensively vs the Boks, England, France etc. His tackling technique looks to be naturally low and round the knees (maybe because he comes from a backs background?) which is fine until you're on the goal-line. Prefer Ardie and Jacobson for now.

Taukei'aho was a wrecking ball. I can't remember seeing that in an AB hooker since ... well I can't remember ... so tell me?

The locks, PT I just don't think he has anywhere near an AB workrate or dominance or ideally both for a starting lock. I saw Ardie hitting quite a few rucks the first half and wondered where our locks were. Tupou Vai had a pretty good start, looked like he had potential.

In the backs Jordie Barrett was great. Again huge workrate including as the second playmaker, hit the line well, made his tackles, good under the high ball. Big boot, kicks his goals. What's not to like, apart from the odd brain-fart which hopefully will pass? A real old school full-back (in a good way) plus the playmaker aspect plus the goalkicking. Took one AFL style catch Folau style. Great stuff.

DMac played conservatively and pretty well. Actually I'd liked to have seen him run more! There were a few half gaps maybe he should have tried, but he was focussed on his core job so overall was good.

Don't kill me but I though George Bridge was very solid, good even, and they might go for him specifically for the Boks given their conservative/kicking style of play. I wouldn't blame Fozzie tbh. There's enough attacking firepower elsewhere ... recently.

Finally I thought Jaco Peyper was his normal fair but pedantic self ... BUT I re-watched Rieko's (non) try at about 30-31 minutes a few times and ~~seriously wonder~~ wrongly wondered, see below if it would have stood had Peyper gone to the TMO? It looked 50/50 to me if he was held or slipped the tackle at the last minute.

I got the impression Peyper had certain pre-conceived areas of the game he wanted to clamp down on.

voodoo

@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.

Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.

It was an intercept in the making, the argie shot up in anticipation!

L_n_P

@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.

Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.

My impression live, but agree on rewatch.

Also wonder if the try should have stood, whether he was held or not looked marginal.

L_n_P

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.

I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.

I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?

The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.

Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.

taniwharugby

@l_n_p looked like he was still in contact with Reiko, so I guess technically he is held, therefore cant go again.

All very split second stuff, but the margins at this level are small.

Kiwiwomble

@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.

I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.

I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?

The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.

Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.

my only real problem with RI now is he's still out best 11, so while he's trying to learn a new position we're calling him back out to the wing every few games to sort shit out