All Blacks vs Pumas II
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
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@bones just Ardie almost always seems to have been there or on the bench when Cane was starting (actually Cane starting now seems long ago ...)
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones just Ardie almost always seems to have been there or on the bench when Cane was starting (actually Cane starting now seems long ago ...)
Yeah I feel like both have been played off the bench heeeeeaps. Perenara has pretty consistently been in the top 2 halves though, whereas Ardie...top 2 second fives, just not getting his chance.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
Huh? That's not true, there's no season where he was ever preferred.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
DMac at 10 huh. He'll show those armchair critics .. something ... the good thing about DMac's play is it doesn't sit on the fence ... good for him.
DMac is the sort of player who could score 5 tries in a RWC Final but some people would still want him dropped on the basis the other players made it easy for him.
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@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
Huh? That's not true, there's no season where he was ever preferred.
Yeah after the toilet incident and Smith went down the dunny, form wise
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
Huh? That's not true, there's no season where he was ever preferred.
Yeah after the toilet incident and Smith went down the dunny, form wise
There's no season where TJ has had the majority of starts. In 2016, the year of the dunny incident TJ only started 3 matches.
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@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
Huh? That's not true, there's no season where he was ever preferred.
Yeah after the toilet incident and Smith went down the dunny, form wise
There's no season where TJ has had the majority of starts. In 2016, the year of the dunny incident TJ only started 3 matches.
My bad, well certainly where it seemed a lot more even... especially on the fern mood (Smith was considered too bullied).
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
Huh? That's not true, there's no season where he was ever preferred.
Yeah after the toilet incident and Smith went down the dunny, form wise
There's no season where TJ has had the majority of starts. In 2016, the year of the dunny incident TJ only started 3 matches.
My bad, well certainly where it seemed a lot more even... especially on the fern mood (Smith was considered too bullied).
It's genuinely weird how few starts he's had, but I guess the original discussion re: Ardie and TJ was test caps as opposed to starting teams, as Ardie has started 30 tests.
Ardie's going to equal Fatty's test record this weekend.
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So TJ has played 54 tests off the bench. The only player I’m aware of that has played more tests off the bench is Mealamu with 55.
Any others?
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@act-crusader I've played quite a few off the sky box.
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
but Ardie has nearly 20 less starts than TJP, although nearly 2 years younger, that shocked me..
What's shocking about that? Seems about right to me.
TJ getting a lot of starts seems right to you?
No, didn't see where it said that in the post. Ardie not getting a lot of starts does though. Plus there was a season or two where Perenara was preferred.
Huh? That's not true, there's no season where he was ever preferred.
Yeah after the toilet incident and Smith went down the dunny, form wise
Candidate for Post of the Month....
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@yeahtheboys said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p have you guys ever watched NRL? Their playmakers (who are far better than Union playmakers imo) just about run sideways more than they run forward… if you’re fast enough and agile enough then running across field occasionally can cause a defence to bite out of the line, leaving holes. If the space is there in front of him, he takes it by running straight. If it’s not there then he tries to create something but changing running lines.
I grew up watch NRL as much as rugby, probably more tbh given how many matches ... it was Manly-Warringah for me as it has (had!) a big kiwi connection especially with Matthew Ridge moving there. Kevin and Tony Iro. Also loved to watch Balmain (Gary Jack!), Canberra.
It's a different game on attack, though rugby has learned a LOT defensively from league defensive patterns and intensity.
The problems with Damien McKenzie, or anyone really, running sideways at top international level (it can work at SR level) is that (1) defenses are tighter, so he's looking for space that percentage-wise isn't there and (b) he runs away from his support, meaning often slow ball at best or a turnover.
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@themojoman said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
At some point Reiko Ioane will take the Centre spot given his level of development and performances. Until then Havili/ALB are the top combo.
I like Tupaea’s potential, he seems to have very good penetration with ball in hand and strong on defence. Ennor has been taking up a spot without adding value TBH. Not sure why he’s still there. Bridge is another that’s finding hard to get back into form. He seems to be down on pace and has taken to try and run over opposition players.
I agree. We seem to overlook that Rieko is 24 (!!). Centres (13) rarely come up out fully-formed unless they're all time greats like O'Driscoll. But I hope ALB is the centre until the next RWC.
George Bridge appears on borrowed time unless his game develops. Reminds me of Zac Guildford without the "issues", i.e. nothing stands out! Or Cory Jane without his world-class fend and high-ball ability ... I miss Cory, quite under-rated internationally.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p I'd be surprised to find anyone that doesn't rate Jane. Fairly unique in that you knew he'd never let the jersey down...
I think he was fully rated in NZ - I'm sure on the Fern! But less well-known outside perhaps.
Alway remember that double-fend off for a try (I think vs the Pumas?) ... also the gob-smacked expression on his face when Quade Cooper beat him with a pearl of a "mid-air" step". Tbh that step would have beaten anyone in the world.
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@yeahtheboys said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
The problems with Damien McKenzie, or anyone really, running sideways at top international level (it can work at SR level) is that (1) defenses are tighter, so he's looking for space that percentage-wise isn't there and (b) he runs away from his support, meaning often slow ball at best or a turnover.
Funny thing about DMac, I think he runs a bit like RMo, in that he drifts/runs sideways looking for a place to beat somewhere, and only mean that if you watch BB he is the type who plays flat to the line and plays to gaps in front of him. Not saying either is right, just how I have seen them play.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Funny thing about DMac, I think he runs a bit like RMo, in that he drifts/runs sideways looking for a place to beat somewhere, and only mean that if you watch BB he is the type who plays flat to the line and plays to gaps in front of him. Not saying either is right, just how I have seen them play.
BB has tended to "shovel" the ball on a bit in a predicable way, allowing defenses to drift? D*mn you Dan, now I need to rewatch a whole lot of RM's international games!
Regardless, the way BB ran direct (crash-ball) at 10 vs the Pumas, plus his run-kick-pass decision-making was remiscent of DC at his best ... sorely missed. Jonny Wilkinson is remembered for his kicking and tackling but he also know how and when to take the line on, bloke was 110% committed.
I'm kind of hoping the directness was a coaching message to all three AB 10's. If not, it bl**dy well should be.
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Last week was the best game at 10 BB has played in ages. Bit rich to make out like that’s his standard until he strings some together.
Also a bit rich to make out that running sideways is something DMac does as a standard option. He does do it but mostly when cleaning up from a spilled pass or a kick through. When that happens he has to buy time and look for a way to not get caught while the support gets behind him. RM does the same. They aren’t as strong as BB who can stand in the tackle a bit better.
What I would like to see more of tonight is DMac distributing sharp passes into gaps in front of runners. Those are the money balls for gaining ground and making breaks.
