Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth)
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@act-crusader said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chris-b 20 minutes without a player is still a massive disincentive in my book. I doubt there will be many out there saying, hey I got away with [insert filth] and we only got 20 minutes.
Said filth will be dealt with by match review and judiciary. Reputation damage (unless you’re a league player) and all the unwanted media attention that makes coaches/selectors more uneasy these days.
I 100% agree with this. The determination of the length of suspension in case of dirty, intentional offending is not only reflected in different offences or aggravating factors, but also the application of the top-end entry point. If Jordie had clearly kicked Koroibete intentionally and with malice, he would have been cited under Law 9.12 (physical abuse: kicking) and the top-end entry point for that offence is 12 + weeks with a maximum of 52 weeks.
And even then, there's this:
Notwithstanding the Sanctions in Appendix 1 and/or the provisions of Regulation 17.19 in cases where the player’s actions constitute mid-range or top end offending for any type of offence which had the potential to result and, in fact, did result in serious/gross consequences to the health of the victim, the Judicial Officers and/or Disciplinary Committees may impose any period of suspension including a suspension for life.
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@chimoaus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@arhs Yep I think a yellow and placed on report would be the best option in these unusual circumstances. I am just happy we had the 20 minute rule. Imagine if we had lost him for the entire game, I truly believe the players will be far less likely to switch off knowing they only need to hold on for 10/20 minutes as opposed to being down to 14 for 60 minutes.
Do you think they actually switch off? Maybe at some club game on the weekend if you’re down a man, but I’d be very surprised if they did at test level.
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@no-quarter said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@kiwiinmelb said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@no-quarter said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Jordie didn't lead with his foot, he kicked it out instinctively at the last second trying to avoid landing on his back.
I remember When Billy slater was on the same charge ,
Then someone with too much time on his hands made a video of him doing exactly the same thing with nobody anywhere near him ,
dangerous and deliberate are two different things
Slater was a grub though so not surprised people thought the worse. He was the king of sliding feet first into players diving to score tries.
He did and it looked fucked but it wasn’t illegal at the time, and he didn’t actually hurt anyone , just looked fucked ,
You would’ve thought a coach would’ve stepped in and said , don’t do that
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@act-crusader said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chimoaus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@arhs Yep I think a yellow and placed on report would be the best option in these unusual circumstances. I am just happy we had the 20 minute rule. Imagine if we had lost him for the entire game, I truly believe the players will be far less likely to switch off knowing they only need to hold on for 10/20 minutes as opposed to being down to 14 for 60 minutes.
Do you think they actually switch off? Maybe at some club game on the weekend if you’re down a man, but I’d be very surprised if they did at test level.
Perhaps switching off isn't the best term as yes, these professionals would be unlikely to "switch off". However, I am curious how things such as an early red impact their thoughts about the likelihood of winning vs tough opposition. If a player has doubts about the outcome I wonder if this impacts how they perform. The Perth game where SB was sent off springs to mind. I'm not sure how much of that was the fact it was 14 vs 15 or if some of it was mental.
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@kiwimurph said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@damo said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Mark my words. They barely even need to have the hearing.
Koroibete's red resulted in no suspension and now the same story for Jordie.
Well I'll be.
Clearly I got the prediction wrong. I don't agree with the decision of the judiciary personally, but that's OK.
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F*ck me. I hate the way the ABs control world rugby. Worse judiciary decision ever. Clear as day red card, a pre-planned assault - Koroibete could have been blinded, suffered life-changing injuries. Just shocking.
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@billy-tell said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
F*ck me. I hate the way the ABs control world rugby. Worse judiciary decision ever. Clear as day red card, a pre-planned assault - Koroibete could have been blinded, suffered life-changing injuries. Just shocking.
He could've DOID!
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@act-crusader said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@crucial said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@kev said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@crucial said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@taniwharugby said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@crucial I wonder what would have happened in that scenario knocking himself out on the jumping players knee that was raised for the jump...because if you follow that process
That one is down to timing I reckon. If both players are still looking to legally compete and one jumps a split second earlier takes the space and knees the other in the head then that is dangerous play. The jumper knows full well he is jumping into another player and needs to be careful. The unusual thing here was the defender running into the 'zone' after it was clear there was no contest. He was only ever going to take the landing space or make an illegal tackle. He shouldn't have been there.
It is kind of like hitting a kid with your car on a road. The kid shouldn't be there but how much of the fault is yours as you have the onus to take care?It’s very hard to jump without raising the knee. That is fine as technique for me. Accidental contact and in that case the winger would be interfering with jumper. But stretching your leg out front with sprigs is just dangerous. As soon as you do that it’s your fault. The winger can come close as he either competes or doesn’t interfere with jumper. Issue with JB was all about technique.
If he had jumped with his foot out sprigs up then I agree. But as I see it he stuck his foot out after jumping and winning the space in a awkward instinctive way to get balance. Like how if you are walking across a log and start swinging your arms around.
It’s not unnatural for some people when they jump high for their leg to swing out high like that. I’m not a tall guy but when I was doing jump training I was taught to do this, mine never swung out far though.
Look at these guys and the difference in how far out their non landing leg goes out.
You’re welcome Jordie and all his fluffers and the DMac haters
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Lawyer Aaron Lloyd (who wasn't involved in this case) about the Jordie decision:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1cIL770GpbG5y8XQiIPaEb?si=_WmmnOj2TLayhDL2cZHR2w&dl_branch=1&nd=1
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do we think there's something not working right when the defense needs to present a expert witness about the biomechanics of jordies jump? same with all the "forward pass" stuff, when we have to talk about "relative velocities" you have to think Rugby is getting too complicated
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@kiwiwomble I found it interesting that Lloyd said - in relation to Ben O'Keefe saying he'd have given a red card - that the on-field decision may have been right at the time because of what the ref saw, right there, without being able to analyse it in more detail. And that then the Judiciary sets it right when they can analyse it properly.
I think that's okay, as long as they don't throw referees under the bus. I felt that's what they did with Angus Gardner after he gave Benjamin Fall that red card for tackling BB in the air and that red card was expunged. They didn't just publish the decision of the Judiciary, but also a statement from World Rugby IIRC. That statement should never have been released; that was pure NH politics.
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@chimoaus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@arhs Yep I think a yellow and placed on report would be the best option in these unusual circumstances. I am just happy we had the 20 minute rule. Imagine if we had lost him for the entire game, I truly believe the players will be far less likely to switch off knowing they only need to hold on for 10/20 minutes as opposed to being down to 14 for 60 minutes.
Actually that covered in any case, a yellow card if not deemed correct can still be taken to judiciary for further action!
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@arhs said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Yep - I feel sorry for the referees, including Murphy in this instance. How does he instantly determine if the foot out is to assist balance in landing, or to prevent an oncoming player from legally tackling him once he hits the ground, or malicious intent for the approaching player? I think they should have used common-sense and issued yellow - but if the guys reviewing them want to see a hard-line rule interpretation for a huge viewing audience, what are they to do?
Who wants to become a referee or TMO?
I feel for the ref too arhs, but no more than I feel sorry for a player who has been wrongly carded. By the way I originally thought it a red too.
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@stargazer said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@kiwiwomble I found it interesting that Lloyd said - in relation to Ben O'Keefe saying he'd have given a red card - that the on-field decision may have been right at the time because of what the ref saw, right there, without being able to analyse it in more detail. And that then the Judiciary sets it right when they can analyse it properly.
I think that's okay, as long as they don't throw referees under the bus. I felt that's what they did with Angus Gardner after he gave Benjamin Fall that red card for tackling BB in the air and that red card was expunged. They didn't just publish the decision of the Judiciary, but also a statement from World Rugby IIRC. That statement should never have been released; that was pure NH politics.
Fair enough, my gut is I’d love it to be more simple, but I guess we’re past that and probably to much riding on it all
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@dan54 said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@chimoaus said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
@arhs Yep I think a yellow and placed on report would be the best option in these unusual circumstances. I am just happy we had the 20 minute rule. Imagine if we had lost him for the entire game, I truly believe the players will be far less likely to switch off knowing they only need to hold on for 10/20 minutes as opposed to being down to 14 for 60 minutes.
Actually that covered in any case, a yellow card if not deemed correct can still be taken to judiciary for further action!
Only if it meets the red-card-threshold.
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@stargazer said in Wallabies vs All Blacks 3 (Perth):
Just as I expected, the NH has woken up and crying outrage. According to the comments on the tweet below, Jordie apparently got off without a suspension because he's an All Black. I've seen more comments like that, also in French.
I can kind of see that point of view though, it's not clear from the Hastings one that he was acting accidentally or intentionally in raising his foot (about 48 seconds in), so for this red card to put aside and that to get three weeks makes you question the process:
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I hope journalists notice there are different people on different panels and it might not actually because someone is an All Black...
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@nostrildamus According to the comments on social media, it's DEFINITELY because he's an All Black!
