Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@act-crusader said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I hope you're right though and we're close to "clicking"
i didn't say that, at all
sorry, must have misunderstood, i asked if we'd pinched a few wins would that be enough for fozzie to be considered to be doing a good job and you said yes, i took that as being only close to being acceptable
Winning lots is his only remit. The only metric that counts. The manner of those wins counts to fans and fuck all else.
So yeah, if we burgled those wins i would say he did pretty well
I never said we were close to clicking though. Beating Ireland that day would have been a robbery.
It is better this way. If we had burgled wins vs Ireland or France it would have given the NZRFU and the AB coaches priceless breathing room. And a chance to paper over our flaws
This sort of thing gets said a lot but unless you are close to the action I don’t think we really know what gets “papered over” or “emphasised”.
I do. In your AB team selections there is always one element emphasized!
That was so 2019…
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@act-crusader said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@delicatessen said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@act-crusader said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I hope you're right though and we're close to "clicking"
i didn't say that, at all
sorry, must have misunderstood, i asked if we'd pinched a few wins would that be enough for fozzie to be considered to be doing a good job and you said yes, i took that as being only close to being acceptable
Winning lots is his only remit. The only metric that counts. The manner of those wins counts to fans and fuck all else.
So yeah, if we burgled those wins i would say he did pretty well
I never said we were close to clicking though. Beating Ireland that day would have been a robbery.
It is better this way. If we had burgled wins vs Ireland or France it would have given the NZRFU and the AB coaches priceless breathing room. And a chance to paper over our flaws
This sort of thing gets said a lot but unless you are close to the action I don’t think we really know what gets “papered over” or “emphasised”.
I don't think that's what he meant. Papered over to the public is more to the point. Which is a very fair point, and I agree that it's better for us to lose and show our weaknesses, than win through some individual magic and have the top brass singing Foster's praises.
Although losing hasn't stopped them doing so either, so it seems.
Are you saying that the coaches should come out after every game and highlight the weaknesses/errors? comments made to the media is a game and in my view we shouldn’t be expecting any in-depth analysis from the coaches or players.
Nope. I'm talking more about the folks who appointed the coaches. The coaching competence is the chasm that would've been hidden somewhat by fluking a couple of wins (in the eyes of Joe public at least). Yet even after losses showing obvious regression, NZR still dutifully support their man.
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@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
That would be a good start, but really depends upon who their replacements are.
Do we have any decent defence coaches in NZ? Do we have any decent attack coaches who are also available?
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@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
That would be a good start, but really depends upon who their replacements are.
Do we have any decent defence coaches in NZ? Do we have any decent attack coaches who are also available?
Is it time for John Mitchell to come back and go from zero to hero?
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@act-crusader said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@delicatessen said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@act-crusader said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I hope you're right though and we're close to "clicking"
i didn't say that, at all
sorry, must have misunderstood, i asked if we'd pinched a few wins would that be enough for fozzie to be considered to be doing a good job and you said yes, i took that as being only close to being acceptable
Winning lots is his only remit. The only metric that counts. The manner of those wins counts to fans and fuck all else.
So yeah, if we burgled those wins i would say he did pretty well
I never said we were close to clicking though. Beating Ireland that day would have been a robbery.
It is better this way. If we had burgled wins vs Ireland or France it would have given the NZRFU and the AB coaches priceless breathing room. And a chance to paper over our flaws
This sort of thing gets said a lot but unless you are close to the action I don’t think we really know what gets “papered over” or “emphasised”.
I don't think that's what he meant. Papered over to the public is more to the point. Which is a very fair point, and I agree that it's better for us to lose and show our weaknesses, than win through some individual magic and have the top brass singing Foster's praises.
Although losing hasn't stopped them doing so either, so it seems.
Are you saying that the coaches should come out after every game and highlight the weaknesses/errors? comments made to the media is a game and in my view we shouldn’t be expecting any in-depth analysis from the coaches or players.
How do you feel the ABs are tracking? Are you concerned by what you have seen over the full season (which did include a RC win which the ABs peaked for)? Or are you seeing positive progression and are looking forward to 2022
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@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
That would be a good start, but really depends upon who their replacements are.
Do we have any decent defence coaches in NZ? Do we have any decent attack coaches who are also available?
Is it time for John Mitchell to come back and go from zero to hero?
No
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@canefan said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
That would be a good start, but really depends upon who their replacements are.
Do we have any decent defence coaches in NZ? Do we have any decent attack coaches who are also available?
Is it time for John Mitchell to come back and go from zero to hero?
No
His defensive coaching put paid to NZ's chances in RWC2019 and barely gave NZ a sniff. Surely he's spent long enough in purgatory now? He might bring some insights about England and NH rugby in general. Right now, NZ need as much insight as they can get to arrest the slide in performance.
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@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
reckon there is zero chance he resigns. Would you? Be honest.
Absolutely not.
It's best job in world.
You can turn up, be useless, do absolutely nothing and still win 70%+ of your games due to the talent available.
With zero effort you're still a puncher's chance to win at every World Cup.
Fluke one of those and you get a knighthood, set for life on the after dinner speaking tour, and can maybe even flog your services to the RFU at a later date for £1m+ per year.
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@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
That would be a good start, but really depends upon who their replacements are.
Do we have any decent defence coaches in NZ? Do we have any decent attack coaches who are also available?
Is it time for John Mitchell to come back and go from zero to hero?
No
His defensive coaching put paid to NZ's chances in RWC2019 and barely gave NZ a sniff. Surely he's spent long enough in purgatory now? He might bring some insights about England and NH rugby in general. Right now, NZ need as much insight as they can get to arrest the slide in performance.
I would think we could still do better than Mitch, but I would still take him over the guy currently in charge of our defence
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@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
That would be a good start, but really depends upon who their replacements are.
Do we have any decent defence coaches in NZ? Do we have any decent attack coaches who are also available?
Is it time for John Mitchell to come back and go from zero to hero?
After how Daryl went in the T20 WC all is forgiven, Cueball for RWC 2023!
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@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
This is a shit thing to say, but given that the breakdown mentioned both of those names, and likely have some access to the knowledge about who will carry the can, I would say that is the political decision possibly already made.
That's not to say that it would be a bad decision if it happens, in fact it's the opposite. Mooar should never have been hired in the first place, and Stormy has been really average in comparison to his international peers.
It is time for us to look at who is available on the international market regardless of whether they are a kiwi or not.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
This is a shit thing to say, but given that the breakdown mentioned both of those names, and likely have some access to the knowledge about who will carry the can, I would say that is the political decision possibly already made.
That's not to say that it would be a bad decision if it happens, in fact it's the opposite. Mooar should never have been hired in the first place, and Stormy has been really average in comparison to his international peers.
It is time for us to look at who is available on the international market regardless of whether they are a kiwi or not.
Any Australian Rugby League defence coaches out of contract? Ireland's head coach is from RL, England's attack coach is from RL, France's defence coach is from RL. Maybe the ABs could bring in some ideas from RL too, especially if they are looking at a different, more offensive defensive system?
Or maybe a South African (sacrilege) could help either the defence or the forwards?
In terms of attack coach, Nick Evans is doing a pretty good job at Harlequins
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@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
This is a shit thing to say, but given that the breakdown mentioned both of those names, and likely have some access to the knowledge about who will carry the can, I would say that is the political decision possibly already made.
That's not to say that it would be a bad decision if it happens, in fact it's the opposite. Mooar should never have been hired in the first place, and Stormy has been really average in comparison to his international peers.
It is time for us to look at who is available on the international market regardless of whether they are a kiwi or not.
Any Australian Rugby League defence coaches out of contract? Ireland's head coach is from RL, England's attack coach is from RL, France's defence coach is from RL. Maybe the ABs could bring in some ideas from RL too, especially if they are looking at a different, more offensive defensive system?
Or maybe a South African (sacrilege) could help either the defence or the forwards?
In terms of attack coach, Nick Evans is doing a pretty good job at Harlequins
We need to get over this intellectual parochialism when it comes to our rugby coaches. We don't own all of the game's IP and greatest minds. FFS, our greater ever era was when we had an Australian ex-Aussie Rules player as our skills coach.
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@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
This is a shit thing to say, but given that the breakdown mentioned both of those names, and likely have some access to the knowledge about who will carry the can, I would say that is the political decision possibly already made.
That's not to say that it would be a bad decision if it happens, in fact it's the opposite. Mooar should never have been hired in the first place, and Stormy has been really average in comparison to his international peers.
It is time for us to look at who is available on the international market regardless of whether they are a kiwi or not.
Any Australian Rugby League defence coaches out of contract? Ireland's head coach is from RL, England's attack coach is from RL, France's defence coach is from RL. Maybe the ABs could bring in some ideas from RL too, especially if they are looking at a different, more offensive defensive system?
Or maybe a South African (sacrilege) could help either the defence or the forwards?
In terms of attack coach, Nick Evans is doing a pretty good job at Harlequins
We need to get over this intellectual parochialism when it comes to our rugby coaches. We don't own all of the game's IP and greatest minds. FFS, our greater ever era was when we had an Australian ex-Aussie Rules player as our skills coach.
I think it is only NZ and SA that haven't had a head coach from overseas. SA has had several non-SA assistant coaches, with Eddie Jones being the most high profile circa 2007.
If the ABs job is the top job in the world (according to the NZRU marketing department
), maybe it needs the best coach regardless of nationality 
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@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
This is a shit thing to say, but given that the breakdown mentioned both of those names, and likely have some access to the knowledge about who will carry the can, I would say that is the political decision possibly already made.
That's not to say that it would be a bad decision if it happens, in fact it's the opposite. Mooar should never have been hired in the first place, and Stormy has been really average in comparison to his international peers.
It is time for us to look at who is available on the international market regardless of whether they are a kiwi or not.
Any Australian Rugby League defence coaches out of contract? Ireland's head coach is from RL, England's attack coach is from RL, France's defence coach is from RL. Maybe the ABs could bring in some ideas from RL too, especially if they are looking at a different, more offensive defensive system?
Or maybe a South African (sacrilege) could help either the defence or the forwards?
In terms of attack coach, Nick Evans is doing a pretty good job at Harlequins
We need to get over this intellectual parochialism when it comes to our rugby coaches. We don't own all of the game's IP and greatest minds. FFS, our greater ever era was when we had an Australian ex-Aussie Rules player as our skills coach.
I think it is only NZ and SA that haven't had a head coach from overseas. SA has had several non-SA assistant coaches, with Eddie Jones being the most high profile circa 2007.
If the ABs job is the top job in the world (according to the NZRU marketing department
), maybe it needs the best coach regardless of nationality France? Argentina?
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@junior said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@stodders said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@sparky said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
My prediction: Foster will stay. Mooar and McLeod will carry the can.
This is a shit thing to say, but given that the breakdown mentioned both of those names, and likely have some access to the knowledge about who will carry the can, I would say that is the political decision possibly already made.
That's not to say that it would be a bad decision if it happens, in fact it's the opposite. Mooar should never have been hired in the first place, and Stormy has been really average in comparison to his international peers.
It is time for us to look at who is available on the international market regardless of whether they are a kiwi or not.
Any Australian Rugby League defence coaches out of contract? Ireland's head coach is from RL, England's attack coach is from RL, France's defence coach is from RL. Maybe the ABs could bring in some ideas from RL too, especially if they are looking at a different, more offensive defensive system?
Or maybe a South African (sacrilege) could help either the defence or the forwards?
In terms of attack coach, Nick Evans is doing a pretty good job at Harlequins
We need to get over this intellectual parochialism when it comes to our rugby coaches. We don't own all of the game's IP and greatest minds. FFS, our greater ever era was when we had an Australian ex-Aussie Rules player as our skills coach.
Doesn’t this comment contradict itself?
I don’t think we have a block we have simply decided on others. -
Catching up on the last few pages of this thread is a funny read in the cold light of day.
Conspiracy theories abound with statements of fact around things we have zero idea about.
We don’t know what was said at interviews by any party or even the NZRU processes.
I agree though that the quality from the support coaches has been low. Maybe Foster is ultimately responsible but I do feel that he has been let down by his lieutenants (or overestimated their abilities).
The team he assembled never excited me and the continued selection of McLeod was as baffling as his initial appointment.
I think we have one guy trying to implement a defence that no one else uses because it doesn’t play the percentages. Another who seems to have a strong voice in team selection which means a lack of consistency. I don’t even know what Mooar brings to the table as I can’t find it. It certainly isn’t attack patterns. -
In the last few years of super the best defence records (tackle %s etc) came from the Blues if I'm not mistaken. That was with Umaga running the D.
I have no idea if his patterns would help, I don't recall it being a rush nor a soak. I wonder if his non naming in the MP coaching team is due in part to him keeping options open?
Just trying to find alternatives.
Highlanders have shown the most variety on attack but when it happens it has Brown's fingerprints all over it.
Tom Coventry is the guy I think most would agree is the best at creating hard forward packs, he just often doesn't have the right mix of players.How does a team of Razor, Scott Hansen, Coventry and Umaga sound?
