Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Ian Foster has signed a two-year contract extension as All Blacks head coach through to the 2023 World Cup, the Herald can reveal. After much conjecture, the Herald understands New Zealand Rugby has moved to give Foster and his management team security as they prepare to lead the All Blacks for 14 weeks away from home. Foster's assistants John Plumtree, Brad Mooar, Scott McLeod and Greg Feek are expected to re-sign alongside Foster in the coming weeks.If his assistants are yet to sign or be offered deals, the NZRFU should not be extending those now
That quote said it would happen before they went on tour, so don't hold out much hope.
I can't find a source which confirms their appointment though, so there is some hope.
Assuming you can't get rid of Foster, I'd look for two or perhaps three new assistants:
Forwards: If Plums is the voice behind Ardie at 8, he should go. I like Coventry, who else is there?
Defence: Robertson started as a defense specialist, correct @Chris ? Who else?
Attack: Brown is the obvious one to try to get, but I don't think they can get him. Who else?
Scrum/set piece: How happy are we with Feek here? Ryan could be good here as well.Mate Robertson,Ryan and Brown would be awesome,I wouldn't mind McDonald being involved as well.
Some of those guys must be on contract elsewhere
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Ian Foster has signed a two-year contract extension as All Blacks head coach through to the 2023 World Cup, the Herald can reveal. After much conjecture, the Herald understands New Zealand Rugby has moved to give Foster and his management team security as they prepare to lead the All Blacks for 14 weeks away from home. Foster's assistants John Plumtree, Brad Mooar, Scott McLeod and Greg Feek are expected to re-sign alongside Foster in the coming weeks.If his assistants are yet to sign or be offered deals, the NZRFU should not be extending those now
That quote said it would happen before they went on tour, so don't hold out much hope.
I can't find a source which confirms their appointment though, so there is some hope.
Assuming you can't get rid of Foster, I'd look for two or perhaps three new assistants:
Forwards: If Plums is the voice behind Ardie at 8, he should go. I like Coventry, who else is there?
Defence: Robertson started as a defense specialist, correct @Chris ? Who else?
Attack: Brown is the obvious one to try to get, but I don't think they can get him. Who else?
Scrum/set piece: How happy are we with Feek here? Ryan could be good here as well.Mate Robertson,Ryan and Brown would be awesome,I wouldn't mind McDonald being involved as well.
Answer the bloody question!
Answered
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Ian Foster has signed a two-year contract extension as All Blacks head coach through to the 2023 World Cup, the Herald can reveal. After much conjecture, the Herald understands New Zealand Rugby has moved to give Foster and his management team security as they prepare to lead the All Blacks for 14 weeks away from home. Foster's assistants John Plumtree, Brad Mooar, Scott McLeod and Greg Feek are expected to re-sign alongside Foster in the coming weeks.If his assistants are yet to sign or be offered deals, the NZRFU should not be extending those now
That quote said it would happen before they went on tour, so don't hold out much hope.
I can't find a source which confirms their appointment though, so there is some hope.
Assuming you can't get rid of Foster, I'd look for two or perhaps three new assistants:
Forwards: If Plums is the voice behind Ardie at 8, he should go. I like Coventry, who else is there?
Defence: Robertson started as a defense specialist, correct @Chris ? Who else?
Attack: Brown is the obvious one to try to get, but I don't think they can get him. Who else?
Scrum/set piece: How happy are we with Feek here? Ryan could be good here as well.Mate Robertson,Ryan and Brown would be awesome,I wouldn't mind McDonald being involved as well.
Answer the bloody question!
Answered
Robertson started as a defence coach? If he were to be brought in, would that be the most likely space as an assistant? Or just straight up forwards coach?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Ian Foster has signed a two-year contract extension as All Blacks head coach through to the 2023 World Cup, the Herald can reveal. After much conjecture, the Herald understands New Zealand Rugby has moved to give Foster and his management team security as they prepare to lead the All Blacks for 14 weeks away from home. Foster's assistants John Plumtree, Brad Mooar, Scott McLeod and Greg Feek are expected to re-sign alongside Foster in the coming weeks.If his assistants are yet to sign or be offered deals, the NZRFU should not be extending those now
That quote said it would happen before they went on tour, so don't hold out much hope.
I can't find a source which confirms their appointment though, so there is some hope.
Assuming you can't get rid of Foster, I'd look for two or perhaps three new assistants:
Forwards: If Plums is the voice behind Ardie at 8, he should go. I like Coventry, who else is there?
Defence: Robertson started as a defense specialist, correct @Chris ? Who else?
Attack: Brown is the obvious one to try to get, but I don't think they can get him. Who else?
Scrum/set piece: How happy are we with Feek here? Ryan could be good here as well.Mate Robertson,Ryan and Brown would be awesome,I wouldn't mind McDonald being involved as well.
Answer the bloody question!
Answered
Robertson started as a defence coach? If he were to be brought in, would that be the most likely space as an assistant? Or just straight up forwards coach?
Well that depends on who the Assistants are I suppose.Were it all fits together.
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Fozzie needs his control clipped. Appointing assistants and empowering them to fix aspects of the team might help. We are in desperate straights right now. JJ and Brown will not be available until after the RWC. Razor would have to put his HC aspirations on hold. Who else is there close by who might be able to help fix things? Gatland or Schmidt are close and theoretically available to at least try to steady the ship
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
Fozzie needs his control clipped. Appointing assistants and empowering them to fix aspects of the team might help. We are in desperate straights right now. JJ and Brown will not be available until after the RWC. Razor would have to put his HC aspirations on hold. Who else is there close by who might be able to help fix things? Gatland or Schmidt are close and theoretically available to at least try to steady the ship
I can't see HC's from the SR franchises giving up those jobs to align with Foster.
Especially after this NH tour.
They may see it as a poison chalice. -
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
Fozzie needs his control clipped. Appointing assistants and empowering them to fix aspects of the team might help. We are in desperate straights right now. JJ and Brown will not be available until after the RWC. Razor would have to put his HC aspirations on hold. Who else is there close by who might be able to help fix things? Gatland or Schmidt are close and theoretically available to at least try to steady the ship
I can't see HC's from the SR franchises giving up those jobs to align with Foster.
Especially after this NH tour.
They may see it as a poison chalice.Gatland must have history with Fozz? He is not a HC. Schmidt is on self imposed hiatus due to his son(?). If I was Razor I wouldn't want to either. I would love him JJ and Tony to get their heads together and form a cartel for 2024 though
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2021:
tv3 just said assistants have not been resigned yer
In the NFL, the first strike for a HC is to force new assistants on him. Its time
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2021:
tv3 just said assistants have not been resigned yer
In the NFL, the first strike for a HC is to force new assistants on him. Its time
i would have thought he would have been keen to move on them. i dont think hes geeting value out of them. hanson did
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2021:
tv3 just said assistants have not been resigned yer
In the NFL, the first strike for a HC is to force new assistants on him. Its time
i would have thought he would have been keen to move on them. i dont think hes geeting value out of them. hanson did
Maybe. But he chose them so maybe he is happy with his team!
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@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
Chris Rattue: All Blacks review of Foster appointment now needed
Opinion: Foster may turn things around, but decision to appoint him was clearly wrong.
Can someone give me their credit card details ? I can’t seem to read this article but I bet it’s awesome.
It won't be it by Rattue, the man who was never going to support the All Blacks again when Robbie Deans missed out on coaching job!
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
Fozzie needs his control clipped. Appointing assistants and empowering them to fix aspects of the team might help. We are in desperate straights right now. JJ and Brown will not be available until after the RWC. Razor would have to put his HC aspirations on hold. Who else is there close by who might be able to help fix things? Gatland or Schmidt are close and theoretically available to at least try to steady the ship
I can't see HC's from the SR franchises giving up those jobs to align with Foster.
Especially after this NH tour.
They may see it as a poison chalice.Gatland must have history with Fozz? He is not a HC. Schmidt is on self imposed hiatus due to his son(?). If I was Razor I wouldn't want to either. I would love him JJ and Tony to get their heads together and form a cartel for 2024 though
My dream team too, though not sure if egos will work together and Tony Brown has turned down Razor last time when he wanted him as part of his team.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
Fozzie needs his control clipped. Appointing assistants and empowering them to fix aspects of the team might help. We are in desperate straights right now. JJ and Brown will not be available until after the RWC. Razor would have to put his HC aspirations on hold. Who else is there close by who might be able to help fix things? Gatland or Schmidt are close and theoretically available to at least try to steady the ship
I can't see HC's from the SR franchises giving up those jobs to align with Foster.
Especially after this NH tour.
They may see it as a poison chalice.Gatland must have history with Fozz? He is not a HC. Schmidt is on self imposed hiatus due to his son(?). If I was Razor I wouldn't want to either. I would love him JJ and Tony to get their heads together and form a cartel for 2024 though
My dream team too, though not sure if egos will work together and Tony Brown has turned down Razor last time when he wanted him as part of his team.
3 down to earth blokes,I reckon they could get together and do the Job.
Razor will not hold grudges he is not that sort of bloke.
He is happy to have a chat if you run into him. -
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
How do we know if we don’t change , All we know it what we have now which is poor.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work.That's a ridiculous comment to make, as Machpants said if you look at our rugby being played even at super level, the skill level of our players in general has seemingly dropped in last few years. We have won many tests just by using sublime skills etc over the years, and we don't seem to have quite that about our players at moment. And that not saying Foster should be coach etc, just need to look at how our teams have played below test level, remember a few years back when almost any NZ team could launch an attack down the blindside with only 5 mtere to work with and still beat defence with a pass?
Also we have to look , we all cutting our wrists with how bad things are, tell me a test team in Tier 1 who has had less losses than ABs this year. Hell Wallabies just finished autumn series without a win for 43 years!!!Boks have dropped 5 teats this year, France 5 etc etc.
I not saying we don't have problems but I still think there no quick fix, and not sure they bad as we think!Could it also be that our best super rugby coaches get plum jobs overseas?
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What a fucking shit show.
No clue against the rush defence, it appears the only tactic to combat it is to kick the ball away at every opportunity. Add in the piss weak defence, fucking shit show!
Things aren’t going to get better while Foster is in charge, he simply has to go.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
Fozzie needs his control clipped. Appointing assistants and empowering them to fix aspects of the team might help. We are in desperate straights right now. JJ and Brown will not be available until after the RWC. Razor would have to put his HC aspirations on hold. Who else is there close by who might be able to help fix things? Gatland or Schmidt are close and theoretically available to at least try to steady the ship
I can't see HC's from the SR franchises giving up those jobs to align with Foster.
Especially after this NH tour.
They may see it as a poison chalice.Gatland must have history with Fozz? He is not a HC. Schmidt is on self imposed hiatus due to his son(?). If I was Razor I wouldn't want to either. I would love him JJ and Tony to get their heads together and form a cartel for 2024 though
My dream team too, though not sure if egos will work together and Tony Brown has turned down Razor last time when he wanted him as part of his team.
3 down to earth blokes,I reckon they could get together and do the Job.
Razor will not hold grudges he is not that sort of bloke.
He is happy to have a chat if you run into him.Especially how they lost out last time, I hope they are smart enough to realise they will be stronger together than apart
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@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think we need to look for a big burly number 6 and a partner for ALB in midfield most of all. Could be a big opportunity in 2022 for Tom Robinson and Samepeni Finau. Can only play 2 of Cane Paps and Ardie in same trio and need a big busy unit to complement them. Blackadder Jacobson and Akira all similar to me and add value but I think we might find better if we want to dominate.
How would RTS go in midfield and how well does Goodhue come back? Tupaea has limited tactical vision at top level currently and Havili is more a stopgap. Rieko is a far better winger.
The next wave of props, like Williams and Norris might be 2 or 3 years away and same for 10s.Perfect. 2 years away is RWC 2023. Timing could not be better.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think we need to look for a big burly number 6 and a partner for ALB in midfield most of all. Could be a big opportunity in 2022 for Tom Robinson and Samepeni Finau. Can only play 2 of Cane Paps and Ardie in same trio and need a big busy unit to complement them. Blackadder Jacobson and Akira all similar to me and add value but I think we might find better if we want to dominate.
How would RTS go in midfield and how well does Goodhue come back? Tupaea has limited tactical vision at top level currently and Havili is more a stopgap. Rieko is a far better winger.
The next wave of props, like Williams and Norris might be 2 or 3 years away and same for 10s.Perfect. 2 years away is RWC 2023. Timing could not be better.
You look at that 1995 team and that could be the truth, except we didn't win.
Generally speaking (in fact, always speaking looking at past winners), WC winning teams have set combinations where everyone knows their role.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.
I don't buy this low period talent thing.
Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.
It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.
I think the talent pool is where it was in the early 2000's and there's poss. more gaps in positions than then, and this will take a while to fix. As you say, it took a good 5 years for Nonu to become a reliable Test 12 and he came in for more stick on here than Bridge or DH.
Clear coaching definitely, but also better and more co-ordinated management of players at senior levels.
