Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
Hansen and Henry worked well together, both were head coaches. But these two might be more equals in terms of experience/seniority/independence,
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.Mate we always wish we had someone with the nous of Smith, geez coaches like him don't come along often!
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.Mate we always wish we had someone with the nous of Smith, geez coaches like him don't come along often!
And he had the humility to come back as an assistant after tasting life as the HC. The original cartel were very unselfish in that regard
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Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach
Four matches into his time in charge of the All Blacks, it’s become clear that Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach.
In his first game in-charge, the Wallabies were inches away from claiming an unlikely win in Wellington, which led former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry to admit that “New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up” by appointing Foster.2020 article, but where is the evidence Henry said that?
In comparison, there are players **potentially** playing for the All Blacks now who either didn’t or still don’t have faith in Foster. This could be a significant factor down the road.Just guesswork?
And I don't remember end of last year people praising the selection of JB at wing.Coach Year Games Wins Losses Draws %
John Mitchell 2002–2003 28 23 4 1 82.1
Graham Henry 2004–2011 103 88 15 0 85.4
Steve Hansen 2012–2019 107 93 10 4 86.9
Ian Foster 2020- 20 15 4 1 77.77%but if you changed % to wins-not wins (losses and draws) it is interesting.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach
Four matches into his time in charge of the All Blacks, it’s become clear that Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach.
In his first game in-charge, the Wallabies were inches away from claiming an unlikely win in Wellington, which led former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry to admit that “New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up” by appointing Foster.2020 article, but where is the evidence Henry said that?
In comparison, there are players **potentially** playing for the All Blacks now who either didn’t or still don’t have faith in Foster. This could be a significant factor down the road.Just guesswork?
And I don't remember end of last year people praising the selection of JB at wing.Coach Year Games Wins Losses Draws %
John Mitchell 2002–2003 28 23 4 1 82.1
Graham Henry 2004–2011 103 88 15 0 85.4
Steve Hansen 2012–2019 107 93 10 4 86.9
Ian Foster 2020- 20 15 4 1 77.77%but if you changed % to wins-not wins (losses and draws) it is interesting.
Not sure what your point is? He's the coach and will be until 2023 WC, so what is the point.
I like you bring up records of coaches that had once in lifetime players like RM and DC etc etc.
You or I can find figures to prove almost anything, even Graham Henry who you bring up coached team to losing 3 Rugby Championships. Does that mean he better or worse than any other coach.
We have to live with the fact at moment we got an AB team that isn't like previous years where we had 5-6 players generally at least that would be named in a World XV, now we would have maybe one or two at best? So why don't we get behind the whole team (including coaches etc) and give them our support. I will say the same when and if Razor takes over the job, as I did when John Mitchell took over from wayne Smith (and boy talk about misgiving there! -
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach
Four matches into his time in charge of the All Blacks, it’s become clear that Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach.
In his first game in-charge, the Wallabies were inches away from claiming an unlikely win in Wellington, which led former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry to admit that “New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up” by appointing Foster.2020 article, but where is the evidence Henry said that?
In comparison, there are players **potentially** playing for the All Blacks now who either didn’t or still don’t have faith in Foster. This could be a significant factor down the road.Just guesswork?
And I don't remember end of last year people praising the selection of JB at wing.Coach Year Games Wins Losses Draws %
John Mitchell 2002–2003 28 23 4 1 82.1
Graham Henry 2004–2011 103 88 15 0 85.4
Steve Hansen 2012–2019 107 93 10 4 86.9
Ian Foster 2020- 20 15 4 1 77.77%but if you changed % to wins-not wins (losses and draws) it is interesting.
Not sure what your point is? He's the coach and will be until 2023 WC, so what is the point.
I like you bring up records of coaches that had once in lifetime players like RM and DC etc etc.
You or I can find figures to prove almost anything, even Graham Henry who you bring up coached team to losing 3 Rugby Championships. Does that mean he better or worse than any other coach.
We have to live with the fact at moment we got an AB team that isn't like previous years where we had 5-6 players generally at least that would be named in a World XV, now we would have maybe one or two at best? So why don't we get behind the whole team (including coaches etc) and give them our support. I will say the same when and if Razor takes over the job, as I did when John Mitchell took over from wayne Smith (and boy talk about misgiving thereI didn't have a specific point, just looking for win-loss ratios to see how previous coaches fared.
I wasn't trying to prove Foster was a worse coach because not only did earlier coaches have stars (as you say) they played a different range of teams but I was interested in the numbers.
Do you know Foster personally? You seem to be very defensive of him.
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Paywalled but you get the point, ABs need a plan B, don't have one and don't see the need for one. So fucking frustrating
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach
Four matches into his time in charge of the All Blacks, it’s become clear that Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach.
In his first game in-charge, the Wallabies were inches away from claiming an unlikely win in Wellington, which led former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry to admit that “New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up” by appointing Foster.2020 article, but where is the evidence Henry said that?
In comparison, there are players **potentially** playing for the All Blacks now who either didn’t or still don’t have faith in Foster. This could be a significant factor down the road.Just guesswork?
And I don't remember end of last year people praising the selection of JB at wing.Coach Year Games Wins Losses Draws %
John Mitchell 2002–2003 28 23 4 1 82.1
Graham Henry 2004–2011 103 88 15 0 85.4
Steve Hansen 2012–2019 107 93 10 4 86.9
Ian Foster 2020- 20 15 4 1 77.77%but if you changed % to wins-not wins (losses and draws) it is interesting.
Not sure what your point is? He's the coach and will be until 2023 WC, so what is the point.
I like you bring up records of coaches that had once in lifetime players like RM and DC etc etc.
You or I can find figures to prove almost anything, even Graham Henry who you bring up coached team to losing 3 Rugby Championships. Does that mean he better or worse than any other coach.
We have to live with the fact at moment we got an AB team that isn't like previous years where we had 5-6 players generally at least that would be named in a World XV, now we would have maybe one or two at best? So why don't we get behind the whole team (including coaches etc) and give them our support. I will say the same when and if Razor takes over the job, as I did when John Mitchell took over from wayne Smith (and boy talk about misgiving thereI didn't have a specific point, just looking for win-loss ratios to see how previous coaches fared.
I wasn't trying to prove Foster was a worse coach because not only did earlier coaches have stars (as you say) they played a different range of teams but I was interested in the numbers.
Do you know Foster personally? You seem to be very defensive of him.
Hell no mate, and wouldn't of given 2 shits if he didn't get the job, as I said I an AB supporter ,so support the whole team, and whoever does any job as they appointed by people who need a shit load more than me.
Funny thing is I did the same in Aus, used to ask why they were getting stuck into Rennie with his percentage etc, and when Cheika coached them. I tend to back whoever get;s these jobs as I been part of the appointment process so many times, and it annoys me at times that people who really have no idea what happens when you go through it all, are then experts from the outside.
Not a biggy, I know everyone has an opinion, but it something that happens on the net so much, and I just think some need to actually go down join a club, get on committee and actually make a difference rather then pick away in background. I know it got to me after awhile and why eventually I stopped doing it.
As I said not a dig at anyone's opinion, just how I feel!
Anyway second half has kicked off so ........ -
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
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@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
It's often the case that the Deputy in an organisation can be exceptional and absolutely essential to success - but absolutely stink as the leader
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
The poor performance we are seeing from this current lot isn't just down to Foster. You sense there are much deeper problems in both the NZRFU and rugby at the higher levels.
I disagree, except that theinnate conservatism off NZR to stick with foster means it's NZR problem. In addition the way they left the coach decision so late meant potentials took guaranteed jobs elsewhere. Also NZR bring unable to admit they're wrong, that's high level.
But foster is just Hansen light, and Hansen was find out from 17 on, and nothing has changed. It's not a NZ deep and dark problem, the players showed that by almost winning against Ireland despite the f coach and out of date game plan. A change of coaching team now would be enough for the ABs to hit the RWC with a good chance of winning. But foster cannot change or learn, so we're fucked until there is a change.
I think there are serious problems in NZ Rugby. It's around player development, succession planning for key positions, retaining good coaching expertise and ensuring continuity in AB management without developing staleness (which we've seen since 2016/7).
Yes, we almost won in Dublin but when under pressure, experienced players screwed up as we've seen in too many games since 2017, or arguably 2016, by making stupid errors and losing discipline. That's hardly all down to Foster - though there are some who suggest he's personally responsible for all the AB ills since he joined the cartel, as though he's some evil genius.
I worry that just simply changing the coach will only paper over the cracks for a short period. Sure, you'll get an improvement straight away due to the change (Hawthorn effect) but there's no guarantee that will last at Test level.
You are blinded by your Love for Foster,
How do we know if we don’t change , All we know it what we have now which is poor.
By your reckoning Foster should have the job forever no matter what his record of success is,because you are scared of change.
In case in doesn’t work.
Paul Lewis: Why can't the All Blacks learn their lessons?
