Super Rugby 2022
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@african-monkey - Substitute those players for inferior ones and the likelihood Crusaders continue on a similar trajectory without them is still extremely high because of the resourceful & innovative systems and structures Razor has continually developed to keep themselves one step ahead of the curb.
Case in point, I remember one particularly match during that 2019 season where Razor had to rest his All Blacks, he selected a 2nd-string team with a forward pack of satisfactory toilers and a couple of journeymen & they still thrashed a full strength Hurricanes outfit 32-8 in Wellington.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@african-monkey - Substitute those players for inferior ones and the likelihood Crusaders continue on a similar trajectory without them is still extremely high because of the resourceful & innovative systems and structures Razor and his staff have continually developed to keep them one step ahead of the curb.
Case in point, I remember one particularly match during that 2019 season where Razor had to rest his All Blacks, he selected a 2nd-string team with a forward pack of satisfactory toilers and a couple of journeymen & they still thrashed a full strength Hurricanes outfit 32-8 in Wellington.
Yeah, It was awesome how he did that without Taylor, Scott Barrett, Whitelock, Todd, Read, Bower, Makalio, Strange, Taufua, Mo'unga, Bridge, Ennor, Crotty, Goodhue, Jordan, Havili and Reece.
Except all of them played that day, although those five minutes for Cameron at the end when he subbed off Mo'unga to give Cameron a run was really giving the toilers a go.
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@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
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This post is deleted!
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@african-monkey - Substitute those players for inferior ones and the likelihood Crusaders continue on a similar trajectory without them is still extremely high because of the resourceful & innovative systems and structures Razor and his staff have continually developed to keep them one step ahead of the curb.
Case in point, I remember one particularly match during that 2019 season where Razor had to rest his All Blacks, he selected a 2nd-string team with a forward pack of satisfactory toilers and a couple of journeymen & they still thrashed a full strength Hurricanes outfit 32-8 in Wellington.
Yeah, It was awesome how he did that without Taylor, Scott Barrett, Whitelock, Todd, Read, Bower, Makalio, Strange, Taufua, Mo'unga, Bridge, Ennor, Crotty, Goodhue, Jordan, Havili and Reece.
Except all of them played that day, although those five minutes for Cameron at the end when he subbed off Mo'unga to give Cameron a run was really giving the toilers a go.
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@kiwi_expat Geez, this is a major revelation. I thought it was simply that the Crusaders had an advantage with just two strong teams to draw from, while Chiefs and Hurricanes have to mould together combo's and squads from 4 weaker teams and fillers from outside. Interestingly, as you evidence, it is a different challenge between Super and International level.
I thought the biggest challenge for the AB's coaches might be moulding together the talents of 5 relatively strong super franchises, with varied game-plans and approaches. I mistakenly thought they may have been doing ok with this. But, perhaps you are right. It might be better for the NZ rugby public if we fire the existing National coaches and simply get represented by the Crusaders entire at international level, as they are so vastly better than everyone else in everything. It worked against Ireland in 2002 after all, the day Daryl Gibson was denied a starting spot by Jonah Lomu to keep the NZ rugby public happy.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, and Landers when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is very little evidence to support his statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, andLanders when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
thats called being innovative
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anyway... I'm going to Melbourne for the Anzac super weekend.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, andLanders when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
100% right on that. Just look at how seamlessly Brett Cameron, Luke Romano, Chay Fihaki, Josh McKay, Nathan Vella, Ere Enari and Isaiah Punivai were slotted into the Crusaders team last year. They were real 80 minute men for the Crusaders, even if you have to combine the total minutes they all played for two Super series together to get to that 80 minutes.
Imagine how much better Razor's Crusaders approach would have gone down for the 42 players who got MIQ spots for the extended All Blacks away season. You can see the problems in the way that Taylor, Havili, Mo'unga and Whitelock performed for the bigger matches at the end, clearly due to being rested for inferior players and not knowing if they had a guaranteed start. Just look at the evidence presented in this thread.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, and Landers when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
I'm confused, were they exhausted this year through overplaying or not match-hardened because of the COVID affected season?
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@nostrildamus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, and Landers when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
I'm confused, were they exhausted this year through overplaying or not match-hardened because of the COVID affected season?
??
You're confused.
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@gt12 How is winning 5/5 of their Super Rugby trans- Ta$man matches (229 points scored across the five) much of a failure?
While his Crusaders had multiple key players unavailable during Super Rugby trans- Ta$man, they didn't drop a game (despite fielding 2nd & 3rd choice guys due to lots of injuries), put 33 on Brumbies, 63 points on the Reds, 54 on the Tahs, 52 on Rebels.
And just thought a certain few posters around here ought to be made aware this... at the very beginning of his coaching career, Razor inherited a Sumner outfit that was rock bottom of the Chch 2nd Division. Within one year he had transformed them from cellar-dwellers to Division champs. And the following seasons he managed to coach them all the way to the top of Division 1.
He's always taken underperforming teams & exceeded expectations, Sumner was the weakest club in Christchurch by a significant margin, when he inherited them.
He inherited a dead last Sumner side, he took a previously 7th placed Crusaders outfit (2015, 2016) that hadn't won anything in 9 years to 5/5, and a NZ-U20 side that hadn't won the World Championship in 5 years, to the 2015 title, in just his first attempt.
What further does he need to accomplish, does he need to levitate?
Crusaders under Todd Blackadder - 4th, 5th, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 2nd, 7th, 7th.
Crusaders under Scott Robertson - (2017/2018/2019/2020/2021) 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st.
I'd argue that his successes in 2020 & 2021 mattered slightly more because I think on paper the Blues were a slightly more talented team, man for man.
The fact that he's remained so dominant without a sophomore slump indicates that he's constantly evolving and innovating.
There also seems to be a misconception on here that Robertson would simply be a Robbie Deans 2.0, when in reality they are very different coaches.
Deans was never Razor's level. Razor has produced far more consistent results overall when look across his campaigns.
Razor has superior man-management, tactical skills & player coach relationships, his game-planning is razor sharp.
In contrast, Robbie has a long history of inconsistent results, poor selections & widely documented fallouts with his players..
Selecting Blair & Ralph, after dropping Cullen, playing McDonald at 13, etc.. Deans had a infamous history of completely bizarre selections.
Deans was an overrated coach who won 1 NPC title from 4 seasons with Canterbury, Razor won 3/4 titles with Canterbury, so far 5/5 with Crusaders despite the absence of multiple greats - of which Deans had an abundance of.
His win-record, overall consistently, selections, man management & tactical ability far exceeds Robbie's.
Razor's more consistent 89% success with Crusaders vs Dean's 74% (with McCaw, Carter et.al).
His record with the Crusaders is 71-4-9, which is crazy.
Todd Blackadder at 74-2-40, and Deans at 88-1-30.
Dean's 5 titles across 8 seasons vs Razor's 5 titles in 5 seasons without the extensive list of Deans/Blackadder's all time goats like Carter, McCaw, etc.. Robertson has taken on rebuilding jobs at every level, from Sumner, Canterbury & U20's, while Deans managed 1 provincial title in 4 seasons with Canterbury, Razor managed 3 in 4 seasons with mostly a very young group of players as well.
Todd Blackadder coached the Crusaders for eight long years. Zero titles. He had some of the greatest players that have ever graced a rugby field on his roster (hello DC, Richie et al - waves). Zero titles. 63% win record.
The first year Razor coached the Crusaders (after the retirement of the aforesaid GOAT's) the Crusaders win super rugby, he's contributed a staggering 89% win record throughout his 5 years at the helm.
He even coached the Crusaders to a title victory, with the final played in South Africa. The first coach in Super Rugby to manage this feat - not to mention, the first team away on the highveld as well.
And every following season since Crusaders have won the overall title, dominating SA teams in the process. Even a pandemic hasn't put paid to the winning, in SRA, a tougher more intense competition than the previous.
Notwithstanding all that winning, the old boys club still saw fit to appoint and then re-appoint Foster in 2021, before they had even faced a top 5 side in the rankings...
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 How is winning 5/5 of their Super Rugby trans- Ta$man matches (229 points scored across the five) much of a failure?
While his Crusaders had multiple key players unavailable during Super Rugby trans- Ta$man, they didn't drop a game (despite fielding 2nd & 3rd choice guys due to lots of injuries), put 33 on Brumbies, 63 points on the Reds, 54 on the Tahs, 52 on Rebels.
I Just thought a certain few posters above me ought to know this... at the very beginning of his coaching career, Razor inherited a Sumner outfit that was rock bottom of the Chch 2nd Division. Within one year he had transformed them from cellar-dwellers to Division champs. And the following seasons he managed to coach them all the way to the top of Division 1.
He's always taken underperforming teams & exceeded expectations, Sumner was the weakest club in Christchurch by a significant margin, when he inherited them.
He inherited a dead last Sumner side, he took a previously 7th placed Crusaders outfit (2015, 2016) that hadn't won anything in 9 years to 5/5, and a NZ-U20 side that hadn't won the World Championship in 5 years, to the 2015 title, in just his first attempt.
What further does he need to accomplish, does he need to levitate?
Crusaders under Todd Blackadder - 4th, 5th, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 2nd, 7th, 7th.
Crusaders under Scott Robertson - (2017/2018/2019/2020/2021) 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st.
I'd argue that his successes in 2020 & 2021 mattered slightly more because I think on paper the Blues were a slightly more talented team, man for man.
The fact that he's remained so dominant without a sophomore slump indicates that he's constantly evolving and innovating.
There also seems to be a misconception on here that Robertson would simply be a Robbie Deans 2.0, when in reality they are very different coaches.
Deans was never Razor's level. Razor has produced far more consistent results overall when look across his campaigns.
Razor has superior man-management, tactical skills & player coach relationships, his game-planning is razor sharp.
In contrast, Robbie has a long history of inconsistent results, poor selections & widely documented fallouts with his players..
Selecting Blair & Ralph, after dropping Cullen, playing McDonald at 13, etc.. Deans had a infamous history of completely bizarre selections.
Deans was an overrated coach who won 1 NPC title from 4 seasons with Canterbury, Razor won 3/4 titles with Canterbury, so far 5/5 with Crusaders despite the absence of multiple greats - of which Deans had an abundance of.
His win-record, overall consistently, selections, man management & tactical ability far exceeds Robbie's.
Razor's more consistent 89% success with Crusaders vs Dean's 74% (with McCaw, Carter et.al).
His record with the Crusaders is 71-4-9, which is crazy.
Todd Blackadder at 74-2-40, and Deans at 88-1-30.
Dean's 5 titles across 8 seasons vs Razor's 5 titles in 5 seasons without the extensive list of Deans/Blackadder's all time goats like Carter, McCaw, etc.. Robertson has taken on rebuilding jobs at every level, from Sumner, Canterbury & U20's, while Deans managed 1 provincial title in 4 seasons with Canterbury, Razor managed 3 in 4 seasons with mostly a very young group of players as well.
Todd Blackadder coached the Crusaders for eight long years. Zero titles. He had some of the greatest players that have ever graced a rugby field on his roster (hello DC, Richie et al - waves). Zero titles. 63% win record.
The first year Razor coached the Crusaders (after the retirement of the aforesaid GOAT's) the Crusaders win super rugby, he's contributed a staggering 89% win record throughout his 5 years at the helm.
He even coached the Crusaders to a title victory, with the final played in South Africa. The first coach in Super Rugby to manage this feat - not to mention, the first team away on the highveld as well.
And every following season since Crusaders have won the overall title, dominating SA teams in the process. Even a pandemic hasn't put paid to the winning, in SRA, a tougher more intense competition than the previous.
Notwithstanding all that winning, the old boys club still saw fit to appoint and then re-appoint Foster in 2021, before they had even faced a top 5 side in the rankings...
The Problem is Mediocre people expect Mediocre coaching.Mark Robinson for example was involved in selecting Foster 2 average players who see eye to eye.Razor probably scares some old codgers in the NZR who see him as off the wall too inventive,He doesn't coach the old way.
Heavens to bid Razor might try new things excite the players to perform,Like he has every year with his AB's coming back having to get up again for another SR season with the Crusaders..Some people are just scared of change.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
And just thought a certain few posters around here ought to be made aware this... at the very beginning of his coaching career, Razor inherited a Sumner outfit that was rock bottom of the Chch 2nd Division. Within one year he had transformed them from cellar-dwellers to Division champs. And the following seasons he managed to coach them all the way to the top of Division 1.
this is huge!! i for one really wish someone, anyone, had mentioned this before. This changes everything
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@kiwimurph Super! Gets a deserved chance at last.
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@arhs said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwimurph Super! Gets a deserved chance at last.
Cridge just has to hope it turns out better than Caird and Whetton's experience was.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 How is winning 5/5 of their Super Rugby trans- Ta$man matches (229 points scored across the five) much of a failure?
While his Crusaders had multiple key players unavailable during Super Rugby trans- Ta$man, they didn't drop a game (despite fielding 2nd & 3rd choice guys due to lots of injuries), put 33 on Brumbies, 63 points on the Reds, 54 on the Tahs, 52 on Rebels.
And just thought a certain few posters around here ought to be made aware this... at the very beginning of his coaching career, Razor inherited a Sumner outfit that was rock bottom of the Chch 2nd Division. Within one year he had transformed them from cellar-dwellers to Division champs. And the following seasons he managed to coach them all the way to the top of Division 1.
He's always taken underperforming teams & exceeded expectations, Sumner was the weakest club in Christchurch by a significant margin, when he inherited them.
He inherited a dead last Sumner side, he took a previously 7th placed Crusaders outfit (2015, 2016) that hadn't won anything in 9 years to 5/5, and a NZ-U20 side that hadn't won the World Championship in 5 years, to the 2015 title, in just his first attempt.
What further does he need to accomplish, does he need to levitate?
Crusaders under Todd Blackadder - 4th, 5th, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 2nd, 7th, 7th.
Crusaders under Scott Robertson - (2017/2018/2019/2020/2021) 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st.
I'd argue that his successes in 2020 & 2021 mattered slightly more because I think on paper the Blues were a slightly more talented team, man for man.
The fact that he's remained so dominant without a sophomore slump indicates that he's constantly evolving and innovating.
There also seems to be a misconception on here that Robertson would simply be a Robbie Deans 2.0, when in reality they are very different coaches.
Deans was never Razor's level. Razor has produced far more consistent results overall when look across his campaigns.
Razor has superior man-management, tactical skills & player coach relationships, his game-planning is razor sharp.
In contrast, Robbie has a long history of inconsistent results, poor selections & widely documented fallouts with his players..
Selecting Blair & Ralph, after dropping Cullen, playing McDonald at 13, etc.. Deans had a infamous history of completely bizarre selections.
Deans was an overrated coach who won 1 NPC title from 4 seasons with Canterbury, Razor won 3/4 titles with Canterbury, so far 5/5 with Crusaders despite the absence of multiple greats - of which Deans had an abundance of.
His win-record, overall consistently, selections, man management & tactical ability far exceeds Robbie's.
Razor's more consistent 89% success with Crusaders vs Dean's 74% (with McCaw, Carter et.al).
His record with the Crusaders is 71-4-9, which is crazy.
Todd Blackadder at 74-2-40, and Deans at 88-1-30.
Dean's 5 titles across 8 seasons vs Razor's 5 titles in 5 seasons without the extensive list of Deans/Blackadder's all time goats like Carter, McCaw, etc.. Robertson has taken on rebuilding jobs at every level, from Sumner, Canterbury & U20's, while Deans managed 1 provincial title in 4 seasons with Canterbury, Razor managed 3 in 4 seasons with mostly a very young group of players as well.
Todd Blackadder coached the Crusaders for eight long years. Zero titles. He had some of the greatest players that have ever graced a rugby field on his roster (hello DC, Richie et al - waves). Zero titles. 63% win record.
The first year Razor coached the Crusaders (after the retirement of the aforesaid GOAT's) the Crusaders win super rugby, he's contributed a staggering 89% win record throughout his 5 years at the helm.
He even coached the Crusaders to a title victory, with the final played in South Africa. The first coach in Super Rugby to manage this feat - not to mention, the first team away on the highveld as well.
And every following season since Crusaders have won the overall title, dominating SA teams in the process. Even a pandemic hasn't put paid to the winning, in SRA, a tougher more intense competition than the previous.
Notwithstanding all that winning, the old boys club still saw fit to appoint and then re-appoint Foster in 2021, before they had even faced a top 5 side in the rankings...
have you got a relation called dave? lives in the USA
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@bovidae Cam Jowitt was another that disappeared into the Waratah vortex...then Pat O'Connor (although he did get selected for the Wallabies I think, but didnt play) both locks came through Northland...
that should tell those aspiring to be Waratahs, dont use Northland as your stepping stone!
