Super Rugby 2022
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@themojoman which is what I think they were looking to do that year he played 12...his defence and work rate off the ball is top notch, not to mention being a smart player, if he can adapt to 12 better or get a yard of pace back, puts him right back in the frame.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwiwomble It will be interesting to see Havili for the Crusaders this season. His disappearance in Black looks as much like a coaching/strategy issue as anything. If the structures the All Black coaches want to play don't suit Havili then fine, but why select him in the first place? Just another unfortunate example of square pegs in round holes under Foster's vastly inferior structures. Why does Foster continue to select Havili over others when he doesn't have an effective strategy (that's based off his strengths) to properly utilize him?
Because Foster has no idea how to Properly utilize him.Would be my answer.
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@chris i actually cut our midfielders a lot of slack as several games had SUPER slow ball, cant remember which game but there was one where TJ and BB were taking forever to get the ball out
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris i actually cut our midfielders a lot of slack as several games had SUPER slow ball, cant remember which game but there was one where TJ and BB were taking forever to get the ball out
Have to agree the options were pretty limited for our MF, it looked like organised chaos inside them at times.
The ball was shuffled to the MF when they seemed to have run out of ideas, -
@chris if you are getting slow ball, you are getting it behind the gain line, or going to be caught behind, and just has a knock on effect to the rest of the play, next pass may be rushed, or opposition loosies put more pressure, slowing it further allowing the defence to re-organise.
I think a fair few of our players are probably a bit light on confidence in thier game as well, which affects performance and decision making, execution of basics....this is where Fozzie needs to step up, maybe we need to simplfy things more, get some confidence and belief back in our boys...some of the old heads like Whitelock, Moody, Ardie, Smith etc know what they are capable of and working under pressure, but some of the players that have only been there the past 2 or 3 years have only known us struggling (relatively speaking)
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris if you are getting slow ball, you are getting it behind the gain line, or going to be caught behind, and just has a knock on effect to the rest of the play, next pass may be rushed, or opposition loosies put more pressure, slowing it further allowing the defence to re-organise.
I think a fair few of our players are probably a bit light on confidence in thier game as well, which affects performance and decision making, execution of basics....this is where Fozzie needs to step up, maybe we need to simplfy things more, get some confidence and belief back in our boys...some of the old heads like Whitelock, Moody, Ardie, Smith etc know what they are capable of and working under pressure, but some of the players that have only been there the past 2 or 3 years have only known us struggling (relatively speaking)
Very good points it seems the confidence is low,The belief I wonder if that is lack of buy in on the game plan and maybe the Coaching ?.
It just seems we are lost at times especially under pressure.
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@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby 2022:
Test defence by the likes of Boks, Ireland & France is a different animal to Super Rugby defence.
The Bledisloes were more similar style to Super which Havili looked fine in.
No bro, it's the systems.
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@african-monkey - Substitute those players for inferior ones and the likelihood Crusaders continue on a similar trajectory without them is still extremely high because of the resourceful & innovative systems and structures Razor has continually developed to keep themselves one step ahead of the curb.
Case in point, I remember one particularly match during that 2019 season where Razor had to rest his All Blacks, he selected a 2nd-string team with a forward pack of satisfactory toilers and a couple of journeymen & they still thrashed a full strength Hurricanes outfit 32-8 in Wellington.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@african-monkey - Substitute those players for inferior ones and the likelihood Crusaders continue on a similar trajectory without them is still extremely high because of the resourceful & innovative systems and structures Razor and his staff have continually developed to keep them one step ahead of the curb.
Case in point, I remember one particularly match during that 2019 season where Razor had to rest his All Blacks, he selected a 2nd-string team with a forward pack of satisfactory toilers and a couple of journeymen & they still thrashed a full strength Hurricanes outfit 32-8 in Wellington.
Yeah, It was awesome how he did that without Taylor, Scott Barrett, Whitelock, Todd, Read, Bower, Makalio, Strange, Taufua, Mo'unga, Bridge, Ennor, Crotty, Goodhue, Jordan, Havili and Reece.
Except all of them played that day, although those five minutes for Cameron at the end when he subbed off Mo'unga to give Cameron a run was really giving the toilers a go.
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@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
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This post is deleted!
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@african-monkey - Substitute those players for inferior ones and the likelihood Crusaders continue on a similar trajectory without them is still extremely high because of the resourceful & innovative systems and structures Razor and his staff have continually developed to keep them one step ahead of the curb.
Case in point, I remember one particularly match during that 2019 season where Razor had to rest his All Blacks, he selected a 2nd-string team with a forward pack of satisfactory toilers and a couple of journeymen & they still thrashed a full strength Hurricanes outfit 32-8 in Wellington.
Yeah, It was awesome how he did that without Taylor, Scott Barrett, Whitelock, Todd, Read, Bower, Makalio, Strange, Taufua, Mo'unga, Bridge, Ennor, Crotty, Goodhue, Jordan, Havili and Reece.
Except all of them played that day, although those five minutes for Cameron at the end when he subbed off Mo'unga to give Cameron a run was really giving the toilers a go.
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@kiwi_expat Geez, this is a major revelation. I thought it was simply that the Crusaders had an advantage with just two strong teams to draw from, while Chiefs and Hurricanes have to mould together combo's and squads from 4 weaker teams and fillers from outside. Interestingly, as you evidence, it is a different challenge between Super and International level.
I thought the biggest challenge for the AB's coaches might be moulding together the talents of 5 relatively strong super franchises, with varied game-plans and approaches. I mistakenly thought they may have been doing ok with this. But, perhaps you are right. It might be better for the NZ rugby public if we fire the existing National coaches and simply get represented by the Crusaders entire at international level, as they are so vastly better than everyone else in everything. It worked against Ireland in 2002 after all, the day Daryl Gibson was denied a starting spot by Jonah Lomu to keep the NZ rugby public happy.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, and Landers when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is very little evidence to support his statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, andLanders when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
thats called being innovative
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anyway... I'm going to Melbourne for the Anzac super weekend.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, andLanders when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
100% right on that. Just look at how seamlessly Brett Cameron, Luke Romano, Chay Fihaki, Josh McKay, Nathan Vella, Ere Enari and Isaiah Punivai were slotted into the Crusaders team last year. They were real 80 minute men for the Crusaders, even if you have to combine the total minutes they all played for two Super series together to get to that 80 minutes.
Imagine how much better Razor's Crusaders approach would have gone down for the 42 players who got MIQ spots for the extended All Blacks away season. You can see the problems in the way that Taylor, Havili, Mo'unga and Whitelock performed for the bigger matches at the end, clearly due to being rested for inferior players and not knowing if they had a guaranteed start. Just look at the evidence presented in this thread.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, and Landers when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
I'm confused, were they exhausted this year through overplaying or not match-hardened because of the COVID affected season?
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@nostrildamus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 could've swore they had more players rested for that match, but my point still remains as there're many instances where Crusaders achieved similar results under Razor with significantly weakened match-day squads.
If a coach has effective structures in place wider squad members can be rotated into the starting line-up and slot into those systems fairly seamlessly (and how they are specifically utilized in context to a gameplan that maximizes the characteristics of the players at your disposal) therefore you shouldn't notice a significant drop in the team's performance. A pretty distinguishing feature of well coached sides. Eddie, Razor, Schmidt, Brown's sides come to mind. Foster does not come to mind, his Chiefs/All Blacks sides have been headless, disjointed & uncoordinated rabble, clearly less than the sum of their parts, with players hesitant & unsure of their roles...
At what stage are posters on here going to stop pinning the blame at various players, instead of acknowledging the main issue, Foster's inability to make the best use of the cattle at his disposal? Plenty of other coaches have succeeded when dealt much rougher hands. Foster isn't a proven maximizer of talent - he's a minimizer.
There is little evidence to support this statement.
In Transtasman 2021 it was the close win against the Force, when he rested both Mo'unga and Whitelock that the Saders lost their chance to win the competition.
In Super rugby Aotearoa, their close loss to the Chiefs came when he rested both Taylor and Whitelock.
In every other big win (and a few losses) over the last two seasons, one thing stands out: An over reliance on a spine of Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga (with a range of others such as Barrett, Havili etc). The only evidence to support your statement from the last two years would be the early wins over the Tahs, Blues, and Landers when Whitelock was out. However, even then he played Moody, Taylor, Mo'unga, Goodhue, and Havili, plus others.
He has the best squad and has had the best squad for years, and he still relies on a few main players to get them through, who then perform poorly for the ABs because they are fucked by that time.
I'm confused, were they exhausted this year through overplaying or not match-hardened because of the COVID affected season?
??
You're confused.
