All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.
According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.
Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.
Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -
Didn’t commentators say completely legal?
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.
According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.
Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.
Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -
Didn’t commentators say completely legal?
They were too busy trying to “inject excitement” rather than look at what happened.
In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
It was careless in that the tackler was never giving himself the chance to pull out if DMac lowered his body position by stepping. Head contact was always a likely result when you go for a big chest hit like that.IIRC there was a replay that should have alerted the TMO. Maybe he wasn’t watching?
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
refer the framework above though - it's contact to the head with force = red card. The issue is that people aren't applying the framework, so what's the point in having it.
We've seen this wtih the 'tip tackle' or players in air framework, that keeps getting ignored, or apparently mitigated by defenders (George Bridge penalty, Bryce Heem, etc).
I don't care what the laws are, I care that they are clear, and enforced reasonably consistently.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
refer the framework above though - it's contact to the head with force = red card. The issue is that people aren't applying the framework, so what's the point in having it.
We've seen this wtih the 'tip tackle' or players in air framework, that keeps getting ignored, or apparently mitigated by defenders (George Bridge penalty, Bryce Heem, etc).
I don't care what the laws are, I care that they are clear, and enforced reasonably consistently.
Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)
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@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)
The mitigation is a sudden lowering, and I'm not sure that applies here. Nonetheless, we agree it shouldn't have been 'play on'
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)
The mitigation is a sudden lowering, and I'm not sure that applies here. Nonetheless, we agree it shouldn't have been 'play on'
Probably need to watch a clip but IIRC DMac tried to step inside/change direction which put his body at about a 45degree angle meaning that his head was lower. A step like that is sudden.
Fault still lies with the tackler though. -
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.
I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this
How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
Unless I’m mistaken, Bridge was a secret weapon they planned to unleash at the WC too - I think it was @dogmeat who went to an event about a year before the WC where a selector (Fox?) said that Bridge would be on the wing come WC time.
I’d add that we’ve had no improvement in our props since, I honestly cant remember, and perhaps chased away some who could have been the foundation for a stronger set piece.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this
How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.
I wouldn’t be convinced he could stand out there but again, not a plethora of other options.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.
I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.
Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.
I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.
Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.
Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting
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@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this
How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.
I wouldn’t be convinced he could stand out there but again, not a plethora of other options.
Well I wish I could actually be given a chance to be proven right or wrong. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Playing him at 12 is a hell of a lot more logical than playing him at 13 or on the wing. We don’t need anymore wingers, we have George Bridge.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this
How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.
I wouldn’t be convinced he could stand out there but again, not a plethora of other options.
Well I wish I could actually be given a chance to be proven right or wrong. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Playing him at 12 is a hell of a lot more logical than playing him at 13 or on the wing. We don’t need anymore wingers, we have George Bridge.
Well, we don’t need a playmaker at 10 now. Perhaps Akira Ioane could get a run there ?
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I guess Bridge explains spinning it wide so early, we need to work hard to get the ball to our playmaker to create something out there. Really groundbreaking tactics.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I think it was @dogmeat who went to an event about a year before the WC where a selector (Fox?) said that Bridge would be on the wing come WC time.
Is this true? It can't be true. I don't know if that makes the decision better or worse. At least with throw the baby out of the bathwater scenario after Perth then it's a snap decision made without forethought. But a planned decision? It's 10am on a Tuesday (which is my first day of the work week) and I think has been broken.
