All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..
Bridge and Ralph are the poster children for system wings- not much individual flair, but super useful in a functioning system. The system just doesn't transfer to international level much, so their limitations get brutally exposed.
If it wasn't Foster selecting him with the track record he's got, the vitriol may not be as severe. The coaching team isn't rated, are perofrming the way I feared they might, and as a result their dodgy selections will cop grief. It's healthy. Otherwise we're just in fan-boi territory; they got selected, therefore they are above criticism.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I've never been a Bridge fanboy. I've only said that he had a great SR in 2019 and he deserved his selection then, esp because RIoane wasn't performing.
That's a Fern myth, RIoane out stat-ed Bridge in pretty much every stat you could compare them across in SR in 2019. He scored more tries, made more metres, and made more clean breaks in a season he was injured and in a worse team.
I also think at that time most people were in favour of Bridge's elevation to the All Blacks as another Ben Smith style player, not as our attacking left wing weapon.
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 And how many tries has Clarke scored? For people who go on about finishers, part of finishing is getting in the best position to score....
Not really an accurate comparison, Clarke was in the ABs at a particularly dysfunctional time against tier 1 teams, meanwhile 8 out of 11 of Bridge's test tries are against minnows.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..
Bridge and Ralph are the poster children for system wings- not much individual flair, but super useful in a functioning system. The system just doesn't transfer to international level much, so their limitations get brutally exposed.
If it wasn't Foster selecting him with the track record he's got, the vitriol may not be as severe. The coaching team isn't rated, are perofrming the way I feared they might, and as a result their dodgy selections will cop grief. It's healthy. Otherwise we're just in fan-boi territory; they got selected, therefore they are above criticism.
so if we're playing a moanga/Havili combo then bridge might be a more understandable option (still think it should be on the other side) as they can more readily replicate super level, but if we're mixing and matching then more of a individual flair type guys would be better?
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I am in the pro-Bridge camp. You all create your own reality through cognitive dissonance. Offers a dam sight more than fern favourite Clarke would if he was in the ABs in his present form.
Having said that Bridge wouldn't be in my first 15. Riko I. is the best No. 11 in the country.Clarke would be straight back in for me.
He is one of the few I would let play himself into form because his ceiling is sooooooooooooo much higher than Bridge. -
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I think it was @dogmeat who went to an event about a year before the WC where a selector (Fox?) said that Bridge would be on the wing come WC time.
Is this true? It can't be true. I don't know if that makes the decision better or worse. At least with throw the baby out of the bathwater scenario after Perth then it's a snap decision made without forethought. But a planned decision? It's 10am on a Tuesday (which is my first day of the work week) and I think has been broken.
Yes @gt12 has it right. A year out from RWC19 Fox told me that Bridge was a lock.
In fact looking back on the conversation it seems Hansen and the coaching team had pretty much made up their minds how they were going to play out that campaign.
I do thing the injury to the hobbit put the plans into disarray but they were committed to the dual playmaker.
Unfortunately they didn't have a plan for how to deal with big aggressive confrontations in the loose.
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@bovidae I would prefer to have JB at fullback starting and leave Dmac out. He is bigger, more physical and can kick. We can not have 3 midgets in the backfield at one time. BB could cover 1st five and FB, Reiko on the wing with center cover if ALB healthy. I’m not sure fullback is BBs best position and despite everything he’s done for the ABs I think JB is a better FB and gets better each year.
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae I would prefer to have JB at fullback starting and leave Dmac out.
I think JB is a better FB and gets better each year.
Couldn't agree more. Remember the bashing JB got (who is a fine rugby player) being played out of position on the wing. Foster (/shakes head)
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
I think you’ll find that every AB coach (or coaching setup) in the pro era have all made very questionable selections and approaches from a fan’s perspective.
I know the whole “2 teams” that Henry had going which impacted selections and combinations in the lead up to 2007, and the no more than 3 games, R&R, didn’t sit well with a lot of fans.
Henry also persisted with some and not others.
Mitchell and Deans deserve a thread of their own…wait hang on, that’s been done 😉
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae I would prefer to have JB at fullback starting and leave Dmac out. He is bigger, more physical and can kick.
JB's kicking in Dunners was ordinary. No point being able to kick the ball a long way if it's aimless.
Fullback is definitely JB's best position but I don't think he is a certainty to start. If the coaches want to continue using the fullback as a second play-maker then DMac is the better option. I'd like to see the Mo'unga-DMac combo used in this game to get a better gauge of its merits against better opposition.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 And how many tries has Clarke scored? For people who go on about finishers, part of finishing is getting in the best position to score....
In terms of total tries, Bridge has a very good record - 11 tries from 12 tests.
Clark has only one from five tests.
However, Bridge's numbers are inflated by 5 against in Tonga in two tests, 2 against Japan, and 1 against Fiji.
If we compare their performances in the Rugby Championship (as that is the only international experience Clarke has), they are pretty similar.
In five tests, Clarke has one try against Argentina.
Similarly, in four tests, Bridge has one try in the Rugby Championship (although one against SA at the WC also).
None of that is counting the occasions when they both played in the same game and Clarke made a much bigger difference than Bridge e.g., Australia draw last year where Clarke came on in the 69th minute and made more metres in 11 minutes than Bridge managed in 80 while beating 4 men (Bridge beat one).
I thought that Bridge would be a similar player to BFA, but sadly he just doesn't have the footwork to be a force at this level. He can score tries if others create for him (like the try laid on by Havili this last week), but he doesn't create for others.
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@bovidae Some of it was aimless although some of it was just to get the ball down the other end of the field. I think Bowden’s kicking was worse but point to consider. I still don’t like the size of Mounga, D Mac and Reese in the back line.
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Mo'unga and DMac have a history of being very ineffective when up against a committed and organised defense. I know that goes without saying as good defenses are harder to crack, but they've both been possums in the headlights at test level in those situations.
I have high hopes for both of them, they certainly have the talent, but it's the mental side of things that is found wanting when the going gets tough. Both, in my opinion, are still unproven at the highest level.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
How about Dane Coles at 7?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 And how many tries has Clarke scored? For people who go on about finishers, part of finishing is getting in the best position to score....
In terms of total tries, Bridge has a very good record - 11 tries from 12 tests.
Clark has only one from five tests.
However, Bridge's numbers are inflated by 5 against in Tonga in two tests, 2 against Japan, and 1 against Fiji.
If we compare their performances in the Rugby Championship (as that is the only international experience Clarke has), they are pretty similar.
In five tests, Clarke has one try against Argentina.
Similarly, in four tests, Bridge has one try in the Rugby Championship (although one against SA at the WC also).
None of that is counting the occasions when they both played in the same game and Clarke made a much bigger difference than Bridge e.g., Australia draw last year where Clarke came on in the 69th minute and made more metres in 11 minutes than Bridge managed in 80 while beating 4 men (Bridge beat one).
I thought that Bridge would be a similar player to BFA, but sadly he just doesn't have the footwork to be a force at this level. He can score tries if others create for him (like the try laid on by Havili this last week), but he doesn't create for others.
What ??????? He’s already the greatest playmaker the number 11 shirt has ever seen. Do you mute everything Justin Marshall says or what ?
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A couple of points from Parsons about the game:
Ball carrying quality was a big factor in our poor ruck work.
ABs had a strong emphasis on counter attack from kicks, with the midfielders putting a lot effort into getting back when Fiji kicked. Also ties in with keeping a loose forward near each sideline.
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At least there will be a crowd this week.
Hamilton is abuzz with less than 2000 tickets remaining for the final match of the Steinlager Series at FMG Stadium Waikato approaching. Set to kick off this Saturday 17 July, fans will be treated to an international rugby double header featuring the second Steinlager Series Test between the All Blacks and Fiji at 7.05pm, and the deciding Rugby World Cup qualifying match between Tonga and Manu Samoa at 4.00pm. With less than 2000 tickets left, fans are being encouraged to purchase tickets quickly or miss out on the first Test in Hamilton since 2019 as the Flying Fijians look to improve on their impressive showing in Dunedin. “We saw a fantastic contest in Dunedin and the atmosphere in Hamilton promises to be electric,” NZR General Manager Professional Rugby & Performance Chris Lendrum said. -
@gunner said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
How about Dane Coles at 7?
I reckon Ofa could make a good 8, eh
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@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 And how many tries has Clarke scored? For people who go on about finishers, part of finishing is getting in the best position to score....
In terms of total tries, Bridge has a very good record - 11 tries from 12 tests.
Clark has only one from five tests.
However, Bridge's numbers are inflated by 5 against in Tonga in two tests, 2 against Japan, and 1 against Fiji.
If we compare their performances in the Rugby Championship (as that is the only international experience Clarke has), they are pretty similar.
In five tests, Clarke has one try against Argentina.
Similarly, in four tests, Bridge has one try in the Rugby Championship (although one against SA at the WC also).
None of that is counting the occasions when they both played in the same game and Clarke made a much bigger difference than Bridge e.g., Australia draw last year where Clarke came on in the 69th minute and made more metres in 11 minutes than Bridge managed in 80 while beating 4 men (Bridge beat one).
I thought that Bridge would be a similar player to BFA, but sadly he just doesn't have the footwork to be a force at this level. He can score tries if others create for him (like the try laid on by Havili this last week), but he doesn't create for others.
What ??????? He’s already the greatest playmaker the number 11 shirt has ever seen. Do you mute everything Justin Marshall says or what ?
When did Marshy say that?
