Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
If they'd played better in 2019 we would have been dual champions....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
If they'd played better in 2019 we would have been dual champions....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Yeah. But just saying. Guppy was pants for the entire tourney, and that deflection off the bat at the death was farcical
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@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
If they'd played better in 2019 we would have been dual champions....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Yeah. But just saying. Guppy was pants for the entire tourney, and that deflection off the bat at the death was farcical
Fair call. Both trophies would be even better !
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
Well CDG was in the XI so I'm not sure that was a requirement.
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@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
If they'd played better in 2019 we would have been dual champions....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Yeah. But just saying. Guppy was pants for the entire tourney, and that deflection off the bat at the death was farcical
Which makes Kane's selection of him to bat the super over all the more strange even if his speed between wickets was a big part of it
It does go to how flaky our batting outside Kane was that tournament that there weren't any great options for that super over. Like what is Munro doing in the side if he isn't an automatic first choice in that role.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
If they'd played better in 2019 we would have been dual champions....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Yeah. But just saying. Guppy was pants for the entire tourney, and that deflection off the bat at the death was farcical
Which makes Kane's selection of him to bat the super over all the more strange even if his speed between wickets was a big part of it
It does go to how flaky our batting outside Kane was that tournament that there weren't any great options for that super over. Like what is Munro doing in the side if he isn't an automatic first choice in that role.
Munro had lost his position opening the batting to Nicholls a few games before the final (rightly so) so was never actually an option for the super over.
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@labcat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@canefan said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Still you have to feel a bit for Guppy, Neesham and Ferguson who weren't there. Particularly Gup, that ball terrorized him in the field for the last two overs of the final and the super over and then in the end he was the one run out.
No you don’t. If they were better test players they’d be there.
If they'd played better in 2019 we would have been dual champions....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Yeah. But just saying. Guppy was pants for the entire tourney, and that deflection off the bat at the death was farcical
Which makes Kane's selection of him to bat the super over all the more strange even if his speed between wickets was a big part of it
It does go to how flaky our batting outside Kane was that tournament that there weren't any great options for that super over. Like what is Munro doing in the side if he isn't an automatic first choice in that role.
Munro had lost his position opening the batting to Nicholls a few games before the final (rightly so) so was never actually an option for the super over.
The bad thing was Munro got too much game time and by the time they gave up on him his replacement didn't have enough reps to get up to speed
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Would you rather a test championship win or a 3-0 test series win in Australia?
Tough question - whichever one is in front of us at the time. First ever world champions is a special accolade though, and that is worth more than a 3-0 away against anyone.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:....
Maybe it’s just me but a test championship is worth a fuck ton more than an ODI one. I’m happy.
Would you rather a test championship win or a 3-0 test series win in Australia?
The former. We’ve already beaten Oz in oz before. Cheers Paddles.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Shit he’s a good un. In ANY other era he’d be rookie of the year but Jamieson still pips him in my opinion. How lucky are we to have them both ?
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@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 very lucky but Jamieson debuted Feb 2020 so can't be rooky of this year.
I posted this and was just waiting for some pedantic prick to point this out
That’s fine, Jamieson 2020, Conway 2021….I think we can go with that.
No pressure on any newbies for 2022 huh ?
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@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Jesus, just read @majorrage post a moment ago just after i'd read this piece by Jarrod Kimber:
Not luck, not fluke - New Zealand deserve to be the World Test Champions
Cricket's second favourite team has fought hard and come a long way to become world No.1
I watched NZ win their first test against England in 1978, just scrape past the Windies in 1980,win with the Ilford Seconds in 1986, Marty & Andrew Jones bat for eons at the Basin, then the apocalypse that was 1995-2012 where we celebrated mediocrity and prostituted our test game for limited Overs - including match fixers.
Then after the nadir of South Africa, the captaincy change debacle, we saw the rise of McCullum (Captain's Knock Edition) - the glory that was the UAE no bumper test , McCullum making doubles and a triple, Southee, Boult, Wags, Rosco , Kane and Latham...s
and all I could think of while they were getting each single run was Bert Sutcliffe never playing ina test win, Martin Donnelly and Stewie Dempster having to make their money playing for County and invitation sides , the 49 tourists playing in England to force 4 day tests, the 73 tourists forcing 5 day tests, and finally thinking how Marty would have reacted to this one.
@MajorRage you said it far more eloquently than I ever could. This one means everything to people like me.
I'd dispute that the 1995 - 2012 period was that bad. In fact, we had a decent albeit inconsistent test side in the very late 90s and early 2000s. We drew a (weather assisted) three test series in Australia against an all time great Australian side, won a test at Lord's, thrashed also rans, won a series vs SA and had some wonderful individual success (Shane Bond, some of Fleming's innings, the Astle 200, Chris Cairns with both disciplines etc). At the same time in limited overs we won an ICC tournament, made it to ODI World Cup knock out stages in 1999 and 2003. Nathan Astle was considered one of the world's best ODI batsmen, again there was Bond (on occasion) and Cairns, Harry, Vettori and glimmers of hope from the likes of Roger Twose, Jacob Oram, Macca and Kyle Mills. So it was probably our third best era after the last few years and the 80s.
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@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Jesus, just read @majorrage post a moment ago just after i'd read this piece by Jarrod Kimber:
Not luck, not fluke - New Zealand deserve to be the World Test Champions
Cricket's second favourite team has fought hard and come a long way to become world No.1
I watched NZ win their first test against England in 1978, just scrape past the Windies in 1980,win with the Ilford Seconds in 1986, Marty & Andrew Jones bat for eons at the Basin, then the apocalypse that was 1995-2012 where we celebrated mediocrity and prostituted our test game for limited Overs - including match fixers.
Then after the nadir of South Africa, the captaincy change debacle, we saw the rise of McCullum (Captain's Knock Edition) - the glory that was the UAE no bumper test , McCullum making doubles and a triple, Southee, Boult, Wags, Rosco , Kane and Latham...s
and all I could think of while they were getting each single run was Bert Sutcliffe never playing ina test win, Martin Donnelly and Stewie Dempster having to make their money playing for County and invitation sides , the 49 tourists playing in England to force 4 day tests, the 73 tourists forcing 5 day tests, and finally thinking how Marty would have reacted to this one.
@MajorRage you said it far more eloquently than I ever could. This one means everything to people like me.
I'd dispute that the 1995 - 2012 period was that bad. In fact, we had a decent albeit inconsistent test side in the very late 90s and early 2000s. We drew a (weather assisted) three test series in Australia against an all time great Australian side, won a test at Lord's, thrashed also rans, won a series vs SA and had some wonderful individual success (Shane Bond, some of Fleming's innings, the Astle 200, Chris Cairns with both disciplines etc). At the same time in limited overs we won an ICC tournament, made it to ODI World Cup knock out stages in 1999 and 2003. Nathan Astle was considered one of the world's best ODI batsmen, again there was Bond (on occasion) and Cairns, Harry, Vettori and glimmers of hope from the likes of Roger Twose, Jacob Oram, Macca and Kyle Mills. So it was probably our third best era after the last few years and the 80s.
Agreed in that it was not our darkest hour but, for me, it was always be a bit a "what if" era, in that I think there was more talent in the team than the results suggested. The highlights you've mentioned and individual performances are a testament to that - the team had the talent to compete, but too often collapsed in a heap when things got hard.
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Weird tidbit more than half the side that won the final (Williamson, Taylor, Southee, Boult, Wagner and Watling) all played in This test in August 2012 against the West Indies which they lost by 5 wickets.
Hard to believe they were just five players away from being the best test side in the world at that stage.
