Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
My biggest concern is they will deviate from what has worked the last 6 months, the 4 seamer attack.
Ajax bowled well , bloody well but surely the Indian batsmen face better in the nets? They play spin all the time, and quality wise for greater then what we can provide.
Picking Satnav will be incredibly disappointing, CDG i could live with though it feels hes been away from the game too long.We miss having a top order batsmen who can be relied on to bowl and pick up the odd wicket, the likes of a Astle or McMillan.
Someone who could be relied on to break a partnership.While this is likely to be true it doesn't mean that those net bowlers don't challenge them and force errors. After all our bats face our pace bowling in practice and still get out to good pace bowlers from other teams.
The option of a spinner is two-fold. One is for tactical use to get through some cheap overs or slow scoring (if the pitch offers a little uncertainty in turn). The other is that IF the match goes to the last day AND has dried out AND we are bowling last we can kill off a chase.
I am starting to come around to the thinking that we can add a bat and use Jamieson as the 'allrounder' although I still think it would be good to have a fifth bowler to fill in some gaps, make the batsmen change attitude, help with end changes/rotations etc. Whether that is a spinner or CDG/Mitchell depends on pitch and toss IMO. If the spin option isn't realistic then I am wondering if Mitchell is the better option? He seems better equipped to hold an end while our last bat scores. -
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Ajax bowled well , bloody well but surely the Indian batsmen face better in the nets? They play spin all the time, and quality wise for greater then what we can provide.
not bad for a war rocket
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@nzzp said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Ajax bowled well , bloody well but surely the Indian batsmen face better in the nets? They play spin all the time, and quality wise for greater then what we can provide.
not bad for a war rocket
That’s pretty Flash
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We either trust our top and middle order or we don't. We shouldn't expect more around 40-50 runs from a 5 bowler tail and nor should we.
In a one off test like the WTC final, I'd go all in on this:
Latham
Conway
Kane
Rosco
Nicholls
Watling
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner
Ajaz
BoultSouthee/Wags batting at 8/9 offers more upside in the bowling than downside in the batting. If we are relyiung on our tail to take on the load of getting sufficient runs, we're going down the English route of no self-belief.
With an opening attack of Boult and Southee, followed by Wags and Kylo, with Ajaz able to take wickets (unlike Santnav) we at least have a 5 pronged bowling attack. KJ offers way more than CdG/Mitchell in terms of bowling and TBH, if we're expecting more than 30-40 runs from Numbers 7 and 8, we shouldn't be in the game.
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@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
We either trust our top and middle order or we don't. We shouldn't expect more around 40-50 runs from a 5 bowler tail and nor should we.
In a one off test like the WTC final, I'd go all in on this:
Latham
Conway
Kane
Rosco
Nicholls
Watling
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner
Ajaz
BoultSouthee/Wags batting at 8/9 offers more upside in the bowling than downside in the batting. If we are relyiung on our tail to take on the load of getting sufficient runs, we're going down the English route of no self-belief.
With an opening attack of Boult and Southee, followed by Wags and Kylo, with Ajaz able to take wickets (unlike Santnav) we at least have a 5 pronged bowling attack. KJ offers way more than CdG/Mitchell in terms of bowling and TBH, if we're expecting more than 30-40 runs from Numbers 7 and 8, we shouldn't be in the game.
I don't think it is an expectation of runs from the tail itself, more having the tools in place to maximise the runs from the top order. The difference in having confidence to continue batting as if you had a fellow bat at the other end rather than possibly running out of partners and protecting your wicket.
That is why the concept and position of allrounder exists. It is that middle ground option of an OK bolwler and OK bat. If you have a good bowler that can also hold a bat with confidence then great. Use them as the 'last hold'. Then you decide whether you will get more value from extending the batting (how strong is the opposition batting?) or giving yourself a stronger chance of taking 20 wickets.
I guess that the only thing holding me back from endorsing the balance you suggest is the prospect of them taking in Satnav instead of Patel. -
yeah my selection is totally predicated on not having Santnav anywhere near the test side except in an absolute emergency - as a bowler he brings absolutely nothing to the table compared to Ajaz - he takes longer to get through an over; bowls no balls (capital crime for a slow bowler); and offers about as much threat to a batter as a wet dish rag.
CdG has a nice strike rate but doesn't actually offer that many runs - plus he seems to carry significant niggling injuries into games. I'd rather have Kylo asked to offer more with the bat and given the responsibility of being the all rounder which is where I think he may end up being more than a bowler who bats a bit in the long term.
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@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Sanjay Manjrekar is picking India will select an extra batsmen and only 4 specialist bowlers.
That means only one of Ashwin and Jadeja - I'll take that every day of the week - Ashwin is lethal against Left handers and with the way Pacers have worked out how to bowlaround the wicket these days against lefties, I'm p[erfectly fine with reducing the threat level
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@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
yeah my selection is totally predicated on not having Santnav anywhere near the test side except in an absolute emergency - as a bowler he brings absolutely nothing to the table compared to Ajaz - he takes longer to get through an over; bowls no balls (capital crime for a slow bowler); and offers about as much threat to a batter as a wet dish rag.
CdG has a nice strike rate but doesn't actually offer that many runs - plus he seems to carry significant niggling injuries into games. I'd rather have Kylo asked to offer more with the bat and given the responsibility of being the all rounder which is where I think he may end up being more than a bowler who bats a bit in the long term.
I’d be fine if he continued bowling as he has and the batting is hit or miss. I think the “All Rounder” part of his game is possibly extra pressure, do we really want him to become another James Franklin who’s batting improved but his promising bowling turned to shit ?
Boult, Southee and Wagner may well all retire about the same time, it’s imperative the big guy remains a threat with the ball.
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@synicbast said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Sanjay Manjrekar is picking India will select an extra batsmen and only 4 specialist bowlers.
That means only one of Ashwin and Jadeja - I'll take that every day of the week - Ashwin is lethal against Left handers and with the way Pacers have worked out how to bowlaround the wicket these days against lefties, I'm p[erfectly fine with reducing the threat level
their plan will be pretty simple really, bat once score a shit ton of runs and hope we implode.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
My biggest concern is they will deviate from what has worked the last 6 months, the 4 seamer attack.
Ajax bowled well , bloody well but surely the Indian batsmen face better in the nets? They play spin all the time, and quality wise for greater then what we can provide.
Picking Satnav will be incredibly disappointing, CDG i could live with though it feels hes been away from the game too long.We miss having a top order batsmen who can be relied on to bowl and pick up the odd wicket, the likes of a Astle or McMillan.
Someone who could be relied on to break a partnership.Throw Styris in there too as that type of player, I remember all three taking crucial wickets once in a blue moon which helped immensely. They were all handy.
It’s a bit of a shame we don’t appear to have anyone like that in the top order but I’ll take the batting records of our current lot over any of those guys any day that ends with a Y.
What a bugger Jesse Ryder had issues, I’d have picked him for a batting average in the 40s and his bowling was possibly better than all three of them.
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I guess that there may be some interest in this afternoon's announcement as it may show the hand by being the 11 plus one option based on toss/conditions and three covering for injury.
So maybe we will see the with/without spinner option and reserve Bat, Ball and Keeper.
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No love for CDG it seems. The comms keep saying that bowlers like him have been doing very well in England. He also serves as a pinch hitter if we want quick runs.
Ave 36 with the bat. 32 with the ball at 2.4 eco. 25 tests experience not to be sneezed at.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
No love for CDG it seems. The comms keep saying that bowlers like him have been doing very well in England. He also serves as a pinch hitter if we want quick runs.
Ave 36 with the bat. 32 with the ball at 2.4 eco. 25 tests experience not to be sneezed at.
Is he short of a gallop? He is in the mix for me, along with D Mitch Ajaz and Blundell for me(if we choose to take an extra batsman)
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@arhs said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I want them to bolster the batting with Daryl Mitchell and punt that swing will be vastly more important than spin. That also enhances our close catching of edges from the swinging ball and a Wagner bounce barrage.
Yeah - I'm leaning that way as well. Him or Colin.
Someone who can bowl a few handy overs and block up an end.
I think it's all very well talking about Big Kyle batting at 7 - but, if the Indians knock over our top order cheaply, we'll be pretty happy to have a genuine batsman at 7.
For reference, when we played them last year - CdG batted at 7 in both games. Ajaz played the first game (Wags didn't) and barely got a bowl. Wags came in for the 2nd game - got a couple of wickets and some handy runs. I wouldn't mind that team again - with Conway in for Blundell.
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If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
