All Blacks 2021
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
You've got to be kidding me ? - you just play what's in front of you, how that involve training with less intensity, save on injuries etc... not saying don't have game plans in place, but you don't have to stick to them like glue, just be flexible about them
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@crucial come on, i was arguing an extreme to counter an extreme, ive never seriously said the players shouldn't play whats in front of them...said as much like two posts ago.....im just saying that almost everyone else takes that as given...no one says otherwise...and so most people are talking about whats not happening which is the coaches coming up with new ideas
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
You've got to be kidding me ? - you just play what's in front of you, how that involve training with less intensity, save on injuries etc... not saying don't have game plans in place, but you don't have to stick to them like glue, just be flexible about them
and im not saying you do!! never have! im just talking about something different! something ADDITIONAL to the players playing heads up rugby which is the coaches doing more
I...AM....NOT...DISAGREEING...THE PLAYERS....SHOULD...PLAY...WHATS....IN...FRONT...OF...THEM
is that more clear? saying the coaches can do more to counter things like the rush defence does NOT mean i think the players should only do what the coaches say...jesus christ is that so hard to understand
I only disagree at making up a new game plan on the fly is just as easy as spending hours during the week at training practicing and perfecting things, we often talk about teams that have been rushed together not having time to practice...we say that for a reason surely
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
I realize it's about a bit of both, but my main concern at the moment is our playermakers are not reading situations well during the game... also our forwards are not doing the hard work through the phases, so we are also getting done at the breakdown, Ireland & France did those things very well, which is basically why they beat us.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
I realize it's about a bit of both, but my main concern at the moment is our playermakers are not reading situations well during the game... also our forwards are not doing the hard work through the phases, so we are also getting done at the breakdown, Ireland & France did those things very well, which is basically why they beat us.
and thats fair enough if thats your concern....but you come and have a go at other people for not agreeing...when really they're just talking about something different, its a general thread, if you want to only talk about that then start a specific thread
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
I realize it's about a bit of both, but my main concern at the moment is our playermakers are not reading situations well during the game... also our forwards are not doing the hard work through the phases, so we are also getting done at the breakdown, Ireland & France did those things very well, which is basically why they beat us.
Some of the problem here could be that you are late to the party. We have discussed all of these points months ago and may be ahead of you in what we are talking about.
Have a read back through the thread -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Come on, you know you love it when some fresh blood comes sprinting in the door, throwing faeces everywhere, yelling at people to eat it up; and some poor suckers try to respond with 'debate'.
It's like coming across a particularly hot pepper when eating a reheated chili-con-carne you were just starting to get a little bored of.
Sometimes - the hot little pepper is a tiny piece of absolute batshit-crazy. (I miss you jaguars4real (or similar?))
But sometimes, it seems, it can just be a little bundle of banal cliches... and somehow - it's just as fun! -
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
I realize it's about a bit of both, but my main concern at the moment is our playermakers are not reading situations well during the game... also our forwards are not doing the hard work through the phases, so we are also getting done at the breakdown, Ireland & France did those things very well, which is basically why they beat us.
and thats fair enough if thats your concern....but you come and have a go at other people for not agreeing...when really they're just talking about something different, its a general thread, if you want to only talk about that then start a specific thread
Nooooooo
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@booboo but then i can take @antipodean 's approach
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
I realize it's about a bit of both, but my main concern at the moment is our playermakers are not reading situations well during the game... also our forwards are not doing the hard work through the phases, so we are also getting done at the breakdown, Ireland & France did those things very well, which is basically why they beat us.
Some of the problem here could be that you are late to the party. We have discussed all of these points months ago and may be ahead of you in what we are talking about.
Have a read back through the threadHardly my fault mate, only joined this site a few weeks back.
You don't need that many game plans in place - If your defence is poor you're are basically out of the game, game plan wise your defensive systems are vital... when you have possession game plan wise it's on your forwards to go through a lot of phases, execute the set pieces well, use pods etc to give the backs a good platform, then it's all about good option taking from your 9 & 10.
I mention this stuff because we're executing most of this stuff pretty poorly & I'll keep mentioning it until this team wakes up & starts playing bloody properly
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, if it was just as easy to work it out on the fly then they would probably train with a lot less intensity and save on injuries, could also save a fortune on coaches salaries
I think you may both be arguing extremes here. Both right and both wrong.
@NZbloke is 'incorrect' because you have to have the whole team ob the same page and that comes from traing scenarios and patterns along with getting used to each other. The coaches need to set the framework for the players to play within.
@Kiwiwomble is 'incorrect' because while the coaches set the framework, it is up to the leaders and the team driver (hopefully the 10) to read what is going on and tweak within the framework.
The coaches need to create and train for a wide enough variety of plays that the 10 can control 'on the fly' AND the players need to think about what they are doing that isn't working. It's not one or the other.
I realize it's about a bit of both, but my main concern at the moment is our playermakers are not reading situations well during the game... also our forwards are not doing the hard work through the phases, so we are also getting done at the breakdown, Ireland & France did those things very well, which is basically why they beat us.
Some of the problem here could be that you are late to the party. We have discussed all of these points months ago and may be ahead of you in what we are talking about.
Have a read back through the threadHardly my fault mate, only joined this site a few weeks back.
Except that you have waded into a 160 odd page thread and are teaching all the grandma's here to suck eggs.
Great to have a new voice on here, I'm just suggesting that you may benefit from reading back a little and you'll find that you keep mentioning stuff that is done and dusted (accepted and disputed).
A few have tried to drag you into the more recent positions but you seem to be taking it that we are disagreeing with your posts.
Hope that all didn't come across as too condescending, that's not the aim. Simply trying to help get you in the groove here and get used to the weird world of the fern.
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On Schmidt joining AB selection panel, and where it will take him, I have just finished Steve Hansen's book, he's pretty good mates with Schmidt. He talks of mentions how much trouble Schmidt was having with the pressure while coaching Ireland (had read that before) and though he was NZR's preferred choice to take AB's job he needed a break away. Hope he just takes it easy coming into whatever roles he does and builds from there.
