All Blacks 2021
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
I don't think Laumape was ever hard done by, he got 15 tests, and they weren't in a row, he never in any tests I saw looked like he would be a dominant force at test level. He was still there or there abouts when he decided he wanted the money, so don't know why anyone is even worrying about him. Even at Super level generally he was a good player, but only looked 'real good' on odd occasion. I personally think Tupaea to me looks a better prospect, as he seems to have a better all round game.
In saying that I thought Havili was bloody good and perhaps his start faded a little during the test season, but I still haven't given up on him yet either.I didn't say his 15 tests were in a row - it's because he was in & out of the team he wasn't able to get much flow going in his game, he needed to play a few matches in a row to get a combo going with either ALB or Goodue at the time, therefore he would've performed better consistently etc, at times he definitely showed how good he can be... ALB & Goodhue are never going to add much attacking wise, both of them lack gas as well.
Tupaea doesn't seem to have much to his game other than smashing the ball up the guts - Havili did play very well in some of those matches for the Crusaders, but hardly fired a shot in the tests, because he was a fullback he adds good pace & a kicking game in the midfield, which are always really good assets for midfielders to have... so would probably have him as one of our midfielders & play him at 13, because the 2nd-five position is closer to the scrums & mauls where most of the traffic is, need that bigger stronger bloke in that position that can consistently get us over the advantage line.
The Conrad Smith/Nonu combo would have to be the best midfield the ABs have had... the balance was great, Nonu was bigger, Smith smaller who also played a big part in organizing the backline on defence & attack, also another big plus was they played together for yonks for their Province, in super Rugby & in tests.
Can see Havili playing a big part in organizing our backline too. -
@kiwibloke Nonu, Smith,Mauger, McAllister, Umaga were all bounced around our midfield, i think it was 25 tests in a row where a different combo started before the Nonu-Smith one became THE one.
I think if Laumape really wanted it, he could have pressed on, given he and Nonu had similar starts to thier AB careers, although Nonu was 5 or 6 years younger at same point i think.
By the same token, I don't think Laumape had the same potential and therefore upward trajectory Nonu had, where he pretty much ended at the peak of 12 play, and now was probably the best time for him to cash up.
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@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke Nonu, Smith,Mauger, McAllister, Umaga were all bounced around our midfield, i think it was 25 tests in a row where a different combo started before the Nonu-Smith one became THE one.
I think if Laumape really wanted it, he could have pressed on, given he and Nonu had similar starts to thier AB careers, although Nonu was 5 or 6 years younger at same point i think.
By the same token, I don't think Laumape had the same potential and therefore upward trajectory Nonu had, where he pretty much ended at the peak of 12 play, and now was probably the best time for him to cash up.
My point is though you find your best midfield combo by giving them at least 5 or 6 tests in a row... Laumape didn't really get that chance.
Both Nonu & Laumape have very similar skills sets, also both are short & built like tanks, giving them a low center of gravity, so they're both very effective at getting over the Advantage line... one skill that Nonu has that Laumape or any other midfielder in NZ or overseas that I can think of now or in the past don't have is that brilliant long flat bullet pass he executed with excellent accuracy.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke Nonu, Smith,Mauger, McAllister, Umaga were all bounced around our midfield, i think it was 25 tests in a row where a different combo started before the Nonu-Smith one became THE one.
I think if Laumape really wanted it, he could have pressed on, given he and Nonu had similar starts to thier AB careers, although Nonu was 5 or 6 years younger at same point i think.
By the same token, I don't think Laumape had the same potential and therefore upward trajectory Nonu had, where he pretty much ended at the peak of 12 play, and now was probably the best time for him to cash up.
My point is though you find your best midfield combo by giving them at least 5 or 6 tests in a row... Laumape didn't really get that chance.
Both Nonu & Laumape have very similar skills sets, also both are short & built like tanks, giving them a low center of gravity, so they're both very effective at getting over the Advantage line... one skill that Nonu has that Laumape or any other midfielder in NZ or overseas that I can think of now or in the past don't have is that brilliant long flat bullet pass he executed with excellent accuracy.
Nonu isn’t that short. Very wide though…..
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
My point is though you find your best midfield combo by giving them at least 5 or 6 tests in a row... Laumape didn't really get that chance.
well in the early years Nonu didnt get 5 or 6 in a row either was my point, look how he turned out.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Loooool
Here's a new one
Henry was a shit coach but Laumape was the answer at 12 and an asset we needed to keep.
Keep delivering Fern
It's getting better. Havili is apparently the answer at 13.
That's not getting started on the Laumape (5'7", 105 kgs) versus Nonu (6', 108kgs) comparisons.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
Yeah, Razor is an excellent coach & would do a really good job as head coach for the AB's - he has good rugby nous, so certainly wouldn't need to rely heavily on a very experienced coaching assistant - it's not vital if hasn't coached another country overseas, also the bloke is in his mid to late 40's & has won 4 or 5 Super Rugby titles... NZ Super Rugby is based on a really fast paced game, the same style the ABs play, so with all his experience as a Super Rugby coach he's the type of bloke we need, would have liked a Robertson/Brown combo, would be a top mix as one use to play in the forwards & the other in the backs.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke Nonu, Smith,Mauger, McAllister, Umaga were all bounced around our midfield, i think it was 25 tests in a row where a different combo started before the Nonu-Smith one became THE one.
I think if Laumape really wanted it, he could have pressed on, given he and Nonu had similar starts to thier AB careers, although Nonu was 5 or 6 years younger at same point i think.
By the same token, I don't think Laumape had the same potential and therefore upward trajectory Nonu had, where he pretty much ended at the peak of 12 play, and now was probably the best time for him to cash up.
My point is though you find your best midfield combo by giving them at least 5 or 6 tests in a row... Laumape didn't really get that chance.
Both Nonu & Laumape have very similar skills sets, also both are short & built like tanks, giving them a low center of gravity, so they're both very effective at getting over the Advantage line... one skill that Nonu has that Laumape or any other midfielder in NZ or overseas that I can think of now or in the past don't have is that brilliant long flat bullet pass he executed with excellent accuracy.
Nonu isn’t that short. Very wide though…..
He's a bit taller than Laumape & a bit heavier than him, but neither one of them are tall either, they both have similar body shapes, built like tanks.
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@taniwharugby yep the players that impress me are the ones who stick with it, the players we need are not ones who pull the pin! I also didn't really think Laumape really clicked with anyone at the Canes, with plenty of starts. Apart from a few times he really didn't dominate at that level either. He wasn't poor by any means, but probably come on as much as I had thought he would!
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Loooool
Here's a new one
Henry was a shit coach but Laumape was the answer at 12 and an asset we needed to keep.
Keep delivering Fern
It's getting better. Havili is apparently the answer at 13.
That's not getting started on the Laumape (5'7", 105 kgs) versus Nonu (6', 108kgs) comparisons.
Who would you have at 13 then ? Rieko Ioane certainly isn't the answer, he gets caught out position every time he plays in the midfield, he tends to drift across to the wing most of the time, when he has performed well starting in the midfield it's always when he's attacked down the flanks... put him back on the wings where he belongs, why the hell would anyone want play one of the fastest wingers in the world out of position anyway ?
L & N are not that tall compared to SBWs as a midfielder, think he was about 6'5'' he didn't break the advantage line up the guts as much them because they have a lower centre of gravity.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby yep the players that impress me are the ones who stick with it, the players we need are not ones who pull the pin! I also didn't really think Laumape really clicked with anyone at the Canes, with plenty of starts. Apart from a few times he really didn't dominate at that level either. He wasn't poor by any means, but probably come on as much as I had thought he would!
Cut him some slack as he had the impediment of some very ordinary first fives, led by JGB, to try to overcome.
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how many excuses can we come up with until we circle back to maybe he just wasn't that good?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
how many excuses can we come up with until we circle back to maybe he just wasn't that good?
What absolute rubbish... as mentioned there are plenty of blokes like ALB & Goodue that had a ton of starts, yet offered very little on attack.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Loooool
Here's a new one
Henry was a shit coach but Laumape was the answer at 12 and an asset we needed to keep.
Keep delivering Fern
It's getting better. Havili is apparently the answer at 13.
That's not getting started on the Laumape (5'7", 105 kgs) versus Nonu (6', 108kgs) comparisons.
Who would you have at 13 then ? Rieko Ioane certainly isn't the answer, he gets caught out position every time he plays in the midfield, he tends to drift across to the wing most of the time, when he has performed well starting in the midfield it's always when he's attacked down the flanks... put him back on the wings where he belongs, why the hell would anyone want play one of the fastest wingers in the world out of position anyway ?
L & N are not that tall compared to SBWs as a midfielder, think he was about 6'5'' he didn't break the advantage line up the guts as much them because they have a lower centre of gravity.
in fairness, using your logic, Rieko hasn't had a long run of games at 13, they keep doing what you suggest by putting him back to 11. Surely if Laumape needed a long run to really settle in the black jersey so might Reiko?
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Loooool
Here's a new one
Henry was a shit coach but Laumape was the answer at 12 and an asset we needed to keep.
Keep delivering Fern
It's getting better. Havili is apparently the answer at 13.
That's not getting started on the Laumape (5'7", 105 kgs) versus Nonu (6', 108kgs) comparisons.
Who would you have at 13 then ? Rieko Ioane certainly isn't the answer, he gets caught out position every time he plays in the midfield, he tends to drift across to the wing most of the time, when he has performed well starting in the midfield it's always when he's attacked down the flanks... put him back on the wings where he belongs, why the hell would anyone want play one of the fastest wingers in the world out of position anyway ?
L & N are not that tall compared to SBWs as a midfielder, think he was about 6'5'' he didn't break the advantage line up the guts as much them because they have a lower centre of gravity.
in fairness, using your logic, Rieko hasn't had a long run of games at 13, they keep doing what you suggest by putting him back to 11. Surely if Laumape needed a long run to really settle in the black jersey so might Reiko?
I personally am real interested to see how Reiko goes after a reasonably full Super season at 13, as I have said if thei RTS character is as good as some are indicating, they might just cause a rethink of midfield. I am a real ALB fan, but like always try and keep an open mind.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Loooool
Here's a new one
Henry was a shit coach but Laumape was the answer at 12 and an asset we needed to keep.
Keep delivering Fern
It's getting better. Havili is apparently the answer at 13.
That's not getting started on the Laumape (5'7", 105 kgs) versus Nonu (6', 108kgs) comparisons.
Who would you have at 13 then ? Rieko Ioane certainly isn't the answer, he gets caught out position every time he plays in the midfield, he tends to drift across to the wing most of the time, when he has performed well starting in the midfield it's always when he's attacked down the flanks... put him back on the wings where he belongs, why the hell would anyone want play one of the fastest wingers in the world out of position anyway ?
L & N are not that tall compared to SBWs as a midfielder, think he was about 6'5'' he didn't break the advantage line up the guts as much them because they have a lower centre of gravity.
in fairness, using your logic, Rieko hasn't had a long run of games at 13, they keep doing what you suggest by putting him back to 11. Surely if Laumape needed a long run to really settle in the black jersey so might Reiko?
The bloke has had a really good crack at 13 with the Blues though & hasn't performed that well - also I look at player where he's going to add the most value for the team, for me it's his deadly pace, so would prefer him to be on the wing... him & Jordon would be my starting wingers for the ABs.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
how many excuses can we come up with until we circle back to maybe he just wasn't that good?
What absolute rubbish... as mentioned there are plenty of blokes like ALB & Goodue that had a ton of starts, yet offered very little on attack.
ALB is twice the Test player Laumape is.
