Positions and players to watch - 2021
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@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
it would be shorter to list the positions we don't need to look at
Openside. We have two good ones. Clark on the left wing looks great, and Ioane is pretty handy as well
Hooker is fucked. Props, while not fucked, are not amazing. Lock is fucked. Blindside is fucked. 8 is fucked if the selectors don't open their goddam eyes. Back up halfback is fucked. A good 10 would be nice. The midfield muddle is fucked. Right wing is fucked. Fullback is okay i guess?
This is also the year the coaching and selecting of the National side should be under pressure to deliver. We were dogshit last year.
We've been dogshittish since the Lions.
I really, really want another good lock this year.
I think we have a good halfback coming, at Prop there are two really good ones at the Saders, and in the loosies we have heaps of talent but the selectors need to stop being pussies.
At first five, we're thin, and the midfield is still weak - they need to decide between ALB and Goodhue and find a 12.
We have no shortage of potentially v. good right wingers and fullback isn't a position of weakness.
Many/most of these problems come from dodgy selecting and a game plan that hasn't evolved since the 2015 WC where about half of them were all-time All Black players in their position.
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@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
it would be shorter to list the positions we don't need to look at
Openside. We have two good ones. Clark on the left wing looks great, and Ioane is pretty handy as well
Hooker is fucked. Props, while not fucked, are not amazing. Lock is fucked. Blindside is fucked. 8 is fucked if the selectors don't open their goddam eyes. Back up halfback is fucked. A good 10 would be nice. The midfield muddle is fucked. Right wing is fucked. Fullback is okay i guess?
This is also the year the coaching and selecting of the National side should be under pressure to deliver. We were dogshit last year.
Missed the final test of the year did you?
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@KiwiMurph said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
it would be shorter to list the positions we don't need to look at
Openside. We have two good ones. Clark on the left wing looks great, and Ioane is pretty handy as well
Hooker is fucked. Props, while not fucked, are not amazing. Lock is fucked. Blindside is fucked. 8 is fucked if the selectors don't open their goddam eyes. Back up halfback is fucked. A good 10 would be nice. The midfield muddle is fucked. Right wing is fucked. Fullback is okay i guess?
This is also the year the coaching and selecting of the National side should be under pressure to deliver. We were dogshit last year.
Missed the final test of the year did you?
oh no, i know who i would pick. I know who i would pick nearly everywhere
the problem is finding players who are effective, and who the selectors also like. There seems to be a huge disconnect between those two levels.
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@Crucial Nock has a quick accurate pass, just hope he can carry on what seemed like a turning point for him in terms of consistency and all round game in 2020
I'd say Fakatava shades him at present, explosiveness and physicality, but Nock certainly looked on the right trajectory last year.
@Duluth yeah given the AB's had been monitoring Robinsons injury situation in 2019, you wonder if last year they thought they'd leave him to play out a full NPC and have him firing for Super.
Blues are pretty flush with loosies.
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@Winger said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
The Highlanders snapped up Fakatava fairly quickly. As they did Smith.
Geez now you're turning your bollocks brush to rugby too.
Smith was selected for the Highlanders in 2011, after a stint at the Blues. He debuted in 2008 in NPC.
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@Bones said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@Winger said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
The Highlanders snapped up Fakatava fairly quickly. As they did Smith.
Geez now you're turning your bollocks brush to rugby too.
Smith was selected for the Highlanders in 2011, after a stint at the Blues. He debuted in 2008 in NPC.
As soon as he showed quality form (esp with the Maori ABs coached by Joseph where he was class and looked like one for the future) he was snapped up by the Highlanders (I was hopping the Canes would sign him after the Maori AB game). Before then he wasn't good enough to get a super rugby contract (WTG doesn't count esp when he got nil game time). But even then he was only a back-up not the regular starter (Cowan)
But I guess the Canes could have taken a punt
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@Tim said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
Starting off in the backs.
At halfback it's pretty clear that there is a huge drop off after Smith, and we're not sure if he will be available in good form for the World Cup.
Fakatava should be exciting to watch; Nock has the skills and is growing mentally, especially in leadership; Xavier Roe plays confidently and could be a bolter; Enari has a lot to prove - will he emerge at last?
Can't say much about the Hurricanes halfbacks without seeing them play Super Rugby. Not a fan of Christie so far, hope he proves me wrong.
What ever happened to TTT?
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@antipodean He looked better for BOP last year, but was only coming off the bench for them.
I'm guessing he has a lot of issues directing the game and playing in tighter conditions.
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@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@MN5 said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@Canes4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@MN5 yeah that game against the Blues last year at the Cake Tin was something else by Laumape. Must of had about five red bulls before that game, certainly played like one.
.....and for those doubting whether he has the more subtle touches to his game could look at how Nonu developed these at a similar age.
Similar ages? Laumape is the same age nonu was at the 2011 world cup. This so called development is a couple of years behind
Nonu was also 4cm taller and 10kg heavier
According to the internet you've got those numbers around the wrong way.
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@antipodean said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@MN5 said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@Canes4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@MN5 yeah that game against the Blues last year at the Cake Tin was something else by Laumape. Must of had about five red bulls before that game, certainly played like one.
.....and for those doubting whether he has the more subtle touches to his game could look at how Nonu developed these at a similar age.
Similar ages? Laumape is the same age nonu was at the 2011 world cup. This so called development is a couple of years behind
Nonu was also 4cm taller and 10kg heavier
According to the internet you've got those numbers around the wrong way.
Aye? That wouldn't pass the eye test
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@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@antipodean said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@MN5 said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@Canes4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@MN5 yeah that game against the Blues last year at the Cake Tin was something else by Laumape. Must of had about five red bulls before that game, certainly played like one.
.....and for those doubting whether he has the more subtle touches to his game could look at how Nonu developed these at a similar age.
Similar ages? Laumape is the same age nonu was at the 2011 world cup. This so called development is a couple of years behind
Nonu was also 4cm taller and 10kg heavier
According to the internet you've got those numbers around the wrong way.
Aye? That wouldn't pass the eye test
Apparently Laumape is 10cm shorter but only five kilos less in weight. I don't think he's as big as those numbers suggest.
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@antipodean no way he is that much wider than nonu. Nonu was frikken massive. Especially in the legs.
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@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@antipodean no way he is that much wider than nonu. Nonu was frikken massive. Especially in the legs.
Depends which era nonu you're talking about. In those '05 Lions games someone posted the other day he looks pretty trim.
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I remember trying to tackle those fucking tree trunks before he was proper famous and they were huge!
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@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
I remember trying to tackle those fucking tree trunks before he was proper famous and they were huge!
Only time I played him I broke his thumb so I didn't have to face him again. RUN AT ME
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@Bones said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
I remember trying to tackle those fucking tree trunks before he was proper famous and they were huge!
Only time I played him I broke his thumb so I didn't have to face him again. RUN AT ME
If I see him at the pools as I often do on Saturday can I check whether this story is remotely true ?
MN5: hi Ma’a, a guy I know from the internet said he broke your thumb, did this ever happen ?
Ma’a: ( stares blankly, wishing he wasn’t a famous ex All Black )
Actually even in my mind this conversation sounds awkward, I might just respect his privacy....
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@Bones said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
@mariner4life said in Positions and players to watch - 2021:
I remember trying to tackle those fucking tree trunks before he was proper famous and they were huge!
Only time I played him I broke his thumb so I didn't have to face him again. RUN AT ME
is that why you call yourself @Bones? gloating over a famous ex AB from the safety of the infoweb
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My thoughts as follows, and I've gotta be honest here: the 2020 international season was almost a non-event for me. Between Covid-19 hovering in the background, misgivings re the coach and captain, really unpalatable scheduling and results and what I saw/see as just the outright unneccessary demolition of what could have been the greatest domestic competition in more than a decade, I'd largely lost interest in the All Blacks, for the first time since I was about 9 I reckon. As such, I didn't follow performances as closely as I normally otherwise would, so if I gloss over a name or two below, please forgive me.
Hooker: currently still well-served by Coles and Taylor but we need at least one of the younger brigade to put their hand up this year or worst case next. Most likely is Aumua.
Props: plenty of options and plenty of promising options. It'll be fascinating if the young talent at the Crusaders can compete instantly with the Blues' hoard of AB props - this'll be a perfect proving ground for the likes of Williams and Newell.
Locks: Similar to the rake position ie well-served by world class veterans at present (Whitelock, Retallick) plus other decent options like Tuipulotu and Barrett but we need a really good 2m+ guy to force his way in. There are plenty of youthful guys who fit the category eg Strange, Selby- Rickett, IWL and Parkinson.
Blindside: up for grabs, big time, IMHO. Frizzell is a mixed bag, Squire could be anything this year, Fifita has plenty of space before he reaches his ceiling, Ioane could be used here, Grace could be used at 6 (or
and there's Jacobsen and Papali'i. I'd love to see Fifita shore up his physicality and become a true swingman option in the ABs.
Openside: refer the shit storm I created last year on the Cane vs Savea thread. I don't wish to re-hash it all but my feelings remain the same. Nonetheless, we're well served here until the next RWC at least, by both. But another guy needs to stand up and put some pressure on. I think Lentjes has the best all-round game of the rest but he's not a tyro. Kirifi and Harmon are midgets and don't thrill me, so I'd like to see Lachlan Boshier - who's efforts in the RS challenge last year still give me the shits - get a crack.
Number 8: Wide open. no-one locked it down last year and this year they'll potentially have Cullen Grace as further competition. Options aplenty though out of the Blues plus Jacobsen.
Halfback: Smith won't make it to the RWC and if Foster is counting on it he's an even bigger muppet than I already give him credit for. Fakatava is the big new noise here but untested at SR level for a start. There are several servicable older options who haven't or wouldn't disgrace the black jersey.
First-five: Richie and Beaudy will take us through to the RWC but we need Ioane ideally to step up this year. I've always liked Otere Black but his window is closing. DMac for mine is impact cover at fullback and 10 cover secondarily.
Second-five eighth: This is our most problematic position a) due to depth and b) due to selectorial pig-rooting around. For mine, ALB is an international 12 all day, every day, who can cover centre. Goodhue is the exact opposite. Yet the selectors insist on playing them in reverse. Grrr. If they just played ALB at 12, (Goodhue, Laumape or J Barrett to cover) we'd at least have the first string option covered. As for the back-up, as I just inferred, in a squad situation any of those three could provide cover but who would my actual #2 be? Probably the guy who played his best season of provincial footy in that position, and in combination with the likely centre selection in my XV (Goodhue). That would be Barrett. However, the Canes won't play him there so the chances of this happening are quite low unfortunately. Beyond those options, I don't see any young guys ready to take the world by storm.
Centre: see above re Goodhue with ALB able to cover. Ioane should be an option there, as well as Ennor when fit. PUJ adds to the plethora of exciting, quality options.
Wings: Yikes. Clarke, Ioane, Bridge, Reece, Ennor (when fit), Jordan, and I reckon this year Leicester F will all be viable options, plus J Barrett. Scary deep.
Fullback: Also plenty of options this year and/or through to the RWC. The Barretts, DMac, Jordan and Havili'i have us well covered.
