The GOAT
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There are only a handful of team sports that have true worldwide appeal, and the NFL isn't one of them.
If you are picking an all-time GOAT I'd be looking at an individual athlete.
Possibly a fair point which would rule Bradman and Phil the Power out unless you happen to have a look at their numbers as a random fan and judge them on that.
There only a handful of global team sports, football and basketball the two true ones. That just leaves solo pursuits like athletics
If you look at it that way then yeah a team winning the football world cup is hugely impressive. Shit the All Whites got nominated for awards for just qualifying. Same with anytime the Tall Blacks do well. Rugby is growing but it's gone from five teams who could have won the WC ( 10-20 years ago ) to maybe.....well still under ten.....
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
in my opinion of course
with regards to team sports, there isn't another position in any sport that is under more scrutiny than the NFL quarterback. In a squad of 50-odd guys, you are the man. You get the money. The entire winning and losing of the organisation rests on you.
Brady built the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen. Left it at 43, and immediately won with another team. Playing the prime position still at the very elite level.
He is the main man and should get his dues. But football isn't basketball. Brady did his part but that defence was huge. This is not MJ single-handedly dominating big games
that's a myth too. One great guy doesn't win you a ring, even if he is 20% of the team on the court. Jordan was amazing, but needed other guys to step up (pippen, Rodman, game winning shots by Kerr). There are a lot of NBA teams with one great guy who don't win because he needs help (see the Warriors this year). Look at a season and see how many games are won when one guy gets a shitload. What did Curry score the other day in a loss?
All good points. MJ could dominate and influence a game more than Brady I would still argue. But they both have that ultracompetitive streak. And Tom wins the GOAT with the hottest wife stakes by the length of the straight and some
The difference between bball and football is that MJ can't be kept out of the game. While he can't do everything himself, you can't stop him taking 25 shots per game and you can't stop him guarding your best player. Contrast that to yesterday, and Brady is only playing half the game, and it was the Bucs defense that won the game for them. Swap Brady for Mahomes yesterday, and the result is undoubtedly the same, and probably by the same margin. You can't say that when you swap MJ for Karl Malone!
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
in my opinion of course
with regards to team sports, there isn't another position in any sport that is under more scrutiny than the NFL quarterback. In a squad of 50-odd guys, you are the man. You get the money. The entire winning and losing of the organisation rests on you.
Brady built the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen. Left it at 43, and immediately won with another team. Playing the prime position still at the very elite level.
He is the main man and should get his dues. But football isn't basketball. Brady did his part but that defence was huge. This is not MJ single-handedly dominating big games
that's a myth too. One great guy doesn't win you a ring, even if he is 20% of the team on the court. Jordan was amazing, but needed other guys to step up (pippen, Rodman, game winning shots by Kerr). There are a lot of NBA teams with one great guy who don't win because he needs help (see the Warriors this year). Look at a season and see how many games are won when one guy gets a shitload. What did Curry score the other day in a loss?
All good points. MJ could dominate and influence a game more than Brady I would still argue. But they both have that ultracompetitive streak. And Tom wins the GOAT with the hottest wife stakes by the length of the straight and some
The difference between bball and football is that MJ can't be kept out of the game. While he can't do everything himself, you can't stop him taking 25 shots per game and you can't stop him guarding your best player. Contrast that to yesterday, and Brady is only playing half the game, and it was the Bucs defense that won the game for them. Swap Brady for Mahomes yesterday, and the result is undoubtedly the same, and probably by the same margin. You can't say that when you swap MJ for Karl Malone!
Yup. And you can't stop him making triple doubles etc filling the stat line
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Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
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Good call Piers ( even if you are a dick half the time )
PIERS MORGAN: Tom Brady doesn't make my Top 10 sporting GOATs
All hail King Tom Brady! The superstar quarter-back's record-breaking 7th Super Bowl victory yesterday means he's now won it more times than any NFL franchise, let alone any other player.
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Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
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@KiwiMurph said in The GOAT:
This is what makes this topic so fun - there is a lot of pros and cons.
Even Bradman - the guy played 11 test series in his whole career and his only overseas series were in England - he never played in Asia, South Africa, West Indies etc.
As I mentioned earlier I love the inane ramblings of butthurt Indians online who are unable to grasp the fact that he averaged close to 50 runs more than the very best of them.
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Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
Maybe above Kid Rock but below Tommy Lee ? Has Pamela Anderson ever released any memoirs ?
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Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
Oh yes, I saw your suggestion earlier and I liked it. Forgot him. Agree he is right up there, what a freak.
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Trying to name a cross-sport GOAT is pretty pointless imho. There could very well be squash players, gymnasts, volleyballers or farking kayakers who have dominated their respective sports more than higher profile athletes in higher profile sports. Ever heard of Ole Einar Bjøndalen? Norwegian biathlete who won 8 Olympic gold medals.
And how do you compare Usaine Bolt with the Don? Or Michael Phelps with Ayrton Senna?
Tom Brady’s stats are absolutely ridiculous, but in a team sport with vast differences required in terms of size and skill set is it fair to say he’s the best ever player rather than the best ever QB? Same with the Don. Best batter for sure, but the dude didn’t bowl, so does that make him the best ever cricketer full stop?
It’s a fun conversation but I don’t see how anyone (other than the asshole Yanks) can unequivocally declare anyone the GOAT.
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
Deion Sanders played NFL and MLB on the same weekend at times. In the pro era. That's fucking unreal.
He and Bo Jackson are the last 2 great dual sportsman
Bo Jackson is a contender for the BOAT athlete (rather than the GOAT).
In addition to football and baseball...his High School decathlon points record appears to exceed the Olympic qualifying standard.
While at McAdory High School, Jackson competed as a sprinter, hurdler, jumper, thrower and decathlete. His best 100-meter time in high school was 10.44 seconds, but he would later run a 10.39 at Auburn. He also ran the 100-yard dash in 9.54 seconds. As a hurdler, he recorded times of 7.29 seconds in the 55m hurdles and 13.81 seconds in the 110m hurdles. In decathlon, he reached 8340 points. In the jumping events, he had personal-best jumps of 2.06 meters (6 feet, 9 inches) in the high jump, 7.52 meters (24 feet, 8 inches) in the long jump and 14.85 meters (48 feet, 9 inches) in the triple jump. As a thrower, he got top-throws of 15.27 meters (50 feet, 1 inch) in the shot put and 45.44 meters (149 feet, 1 inch) in the discus throw.
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Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
Deion Sanders played NFL and MLB on the same weekend at times. In the pro era. That's fucking unreal.
He and Bo Jackson are the last 2 great dual sportsman
Bo Jackson is a contender for the BOAT athlete (rather than the GOAT).
In addition to football and baseball...his High School decathlon points record appears to exceed the Olympic qualifying standard.
While at McAdory High School, Jackson competed as a sprinter, hurdler, jumper, thrower and decathlete. His best 100-meter time in high school was 10.44 seconds, but he would later run a 10.39 at Auburn. He also ran the 100-yard dash in 9.54 seconds. As a hurdler, he recorded times of 7.29 seconds in the 55m hurdles and 13.81 seconds in the 110m hurdles. In decathlon, he reached 8340 points. In the jumping events, he had personal-best jumps of 2.06 meters (6 feet, 9 inches) in the high jump, 7.52 meters (24 feet, 8 inches) in the long jump and 14.85 meters (48 feet, 9 inches) in the triple jump. As a thrower, he got top-throws of 15.27 meters (50 feet, 1 inch) in the shot put and 45.44 meters (149 feet, 1 inch) in the discus throw.
Bo was a ridiculous athlete. He hated the mile and would rack up enough points to win in order to get out of running it. As an aside, he also appears to be an amazing human being as well.
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?
11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!
GET OUTSIDE!!!!
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?
11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!
GET OUTSIDE!!!!
If you like surfing docos, have a watch of Kissed By God, story of Andy Irons - he won the world title 3 years straight, 2002, 2003 & 2004 - Slater won in 2005 as the oldest winner ever, and Irons spiraled into a life of drugs and depression - what could have been!
This is a decent read also
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?
11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!
GET OUTSIDE!!!!
If you like surfing docos, have a watch of Kissed By God, story of Andy Irons - he won the world title 3 years straight, 2002, 2003 & 2004 - Slater won in 2005 as the oldest winner ever, and Irons spiraled into a life of drugs and depression - what could have been!
This is a decent read also
Pretty much seen anything to do with surfing.
Loved the Netflix doco they had during lockdown last year. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called but they were really tight knit all those top end guys in the 90's
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My favorite tennis player is Fed but when it's said and done he won't be the GOAT of his sport let alone sport in general. Good chance both of the others will overtake him for grand slams and he has a losing record against them as well. Hurts me to say a % of his goat chat is due to his likability (and winning lotttttsss).
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@mariner4life said in The GOAT:
Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.
I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.
Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.
One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.
So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.
Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?
real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?
11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!
GET OUTSIDE!!!!
If you like surfing docos, have a watch of Kissed By God, story of Andy Irons - he won the world title 3 years straight, 2002, 2003 & 2004 - Slater won in 2005 as the oldest winner ever, and Irons spiraled into a life of drugs and depression - what could have been!
This is a decent read also
Pretty much seen anything to do with surfing.
Loved the Netflix doco they had during lockdown last year. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called but they were really tight knit all those top end guys in the 90's
Blue Crush?
Yeah, it's pretty good...
Bo Jackson - Wikipedia
