What’s out there at Second Five?
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@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Wish we still had him in the mix.
He was looking so good before the injuries. Such rotten luck. 2016 should have been his year
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@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position
Not quite true really, Highlanders found an excellent 12 and after finally getting him and his midfield partner into prime form, disappeared them.
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@bones said in Blues 2021:
@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position
Not quite true really, Highlanders found an excellent 12 and after finally getting him and his midfield partner into prime form, disappeared them.
Currently coaching his old school 1st XV.
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@bovidae said in Blues 2021:
@bones said in Blues 2021:
@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position
Not quite true really, Highlanders found an excellent 12 and after finally getting him and his midfield partner into prime form, disappeared them.
Currently coaching his old school 1st XV.
Not surprised he's got into coaching after seeing the shit show that got one of the top jobs last year.
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ALB is the best 12 in the country. Hands down. Outside him for the All Blacks we have a ton of options in Goodhue, Ennor, PUJ and Ioane. In a 23 either Goodhue provides cover for 12 as the starting 13, or off the bench, or we have the impact of Laumape off the bench, or try Havili'i off the bench. It's not really that bad. Even Dallas McLeod has shown signs this season of settling into SR level and then potentially making the leap.
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Havilli at 2nd Five,ALB centre would be what I would like to see.
Smith,Mounga,Havilli,ALB,Jordan, Rieko,JB
Weber,BB,Reece on the Bench
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@chris gun starters, but I almost threw up on your bench. Clarke, Faingaanuku, McKenzie, Laumape might be some better names to throw in there somewhere (at least at the end).
To be fair I forgot about Clarke which shows me he has been underwhelming this season.
But I wouldn’t mind Clarke,Faingaanuku or McKenzie in that last bench position.
Reece has been good though high work rate recently.
Laumape I just wouldn’t pick him ahead of the others. -
@chris said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Havilli at 2nd Five,ALB centre would be what I would like to see.
Smith,Mounga,Havilli,ALB,Jordan, Rieko,JB
Weber,BB,Reece on the Bench
- Would consider swapping RM & BB.
- Reece starts or nothing, so nothing. I'd have e Clarke and DMac and even Bridge in front of him on the bench
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@chris gun starters, but I almost threw up on your bench. Clarke, Faingaanuku, McKenzie, Laumape might be some better names to throw in there somewhere (at least at the end).
Oh yeah, and them
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@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
ALB is the best 12 in the country. Hands down. Outside him for the All Blacks we have a ton of options in Goodhue, Ennor, PUJ and Ioane. In a 23 either Goodhue provides cover for 12 as the starting 13, or off the bench, or we have the impact of Laumape off the bench, or try Havili'i off the bench. It's not really that bad. Even Dallas McLeod has shown signs this season of settling into SR level and then potentially making the leap.
half right ALB is best midfielder we have the question which position to play him and who with
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I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
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@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
What's the basis of that?
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@nzzp said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Wish we still had him in the mix.
He was looking so good before the injuries. Such rotten luck. 2016 should have been his year
He has been tremendous for Lyon.
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@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
Umaga-Jenson twin centres?
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
What's the basis of that?
He was outstanding vs Crusaders. He looked very useful.
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Quinn Tupaea is very handy, and has AB potential.
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@kiwimurph said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
What's the basis of that?
He was outstanding vs Crusaders. He looked very useful.
Fair enough, I hadn't picked up that he was that good!
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwimurph said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
What's the basis of that?
He was outstanding vs Crusaders. He looked very useful.
Fair enough, I hadn't picked up that he was that good!
He’s a decent sized unit.
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwimurph said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
What's the basis of that?
He was outstanding vs Crusaders. He looked very useful.
Fair enough, I hadn't picked up that he was that good!
He’s a decent sized unit.
Not really fair is it, twins are supposed to be small.
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@ploughboy said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
ALB is the best 12 in the country. Hands down. Outside him for the All Blacks we have a ton of options in Goodhue, Ennor, PUJ and Ioane. In a 23 either Goodhue provides cover for 12 as the starting 13, or off the bench, or we have the impact of Laumape off the bench, or try Havili'i off the bench. It's not really that bad. Even Dallas McLeod has shown signs this season of settling into SR level and then potentially making the leap.
half right ALB is best midfielder we have the question which position to play him and who with
It's exactly that kind of thinking that has created to the mess our midfield is in. ALB is clearly our best second-five but is just one of a number of guys in the upper tier of centre options. So you play him at 12 and pick the best available centre from the rest of the group to play outside him.
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@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@ploughboy said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
ALB is the best 12 in the country. Hands down. Outside him for the All Blacks we have a ton of options in Goodhue, Ennor, PUJ and Ioane. In a 23 either Goodhue provides cover for 12 as the starting 13, or off the bench, or we have the impact of Laumape off the bench, or try Havili'i off the bench. It's not really that bad. Even Dallas McLeod has shown signs this season of settling into SR level and then potentially making the leap.
half right ALB is best midfielder we have the question which position to play him and who with
It's exactly that kind of thinking that has created to the mess our midfield is in. ALB is clearly our best second-five but is just one of a number of guys in the upper tier of centre options. So you play him at 12 and pick the best available centre from the rest of the group to play outside him.
Kind of agree but not so much in this case. You lose very little by playing ALB in either spot. The question is then who is the best 12 or 13 to pair him with and how would that combo look. I agree that it gets messy though and injuries don't help the planning.
Options are:
12
Laumape - I know it is a cliched judgement but IMO his skillset isn't broad enough and he only seems to be able to tap into his A game every now and then. If he can develop better distribution and a kicking game he would be a good foil for ALB. Just doesn't seem to show signs of doing that.
Havili - needed his arm twisted to play there but if Mounga is at 10 he is a good option. I believe RM plays best with a strong tackling second-five outside him that also has a kicking game.
Goodhue - a better 13 but not creative enough. 12 kind of wastes what skills he does have except covering for RM in defence.
Others - still in development.
ALB - If Foster doesn't bow to the inevitable that Razor will be taking over and putting Goodhue or Havili in at 12 he may look at this option with someone else at 13.13
Ioane: changes the dynamic and if the coaches can find a gameplan that is right for him then I'd like to see it. Just can't quite picture the combo unless BB is at 10. BB holds the defence from drifting more than RM does which means that distribution and a running threat from ALB could create a little space for Ioane to get metres.
Ennor: has never really rocked my boat. Lets see how he goes when back.
PUJ: hard to tell when his super coaches think he is a bench player.
ALB: has the distribution and defence to assist our back three.The more I think about it the more it comes down to who is at 10 and the attack plan from the back three.
Combos I like :
BB, ALB, Ioane
RM, DH, ALBOff those two an option of starting with RM/DH/ALB then moving to BB/ALB/Ioane during the game is one that I like.
That would mean no DMac on the bench or Ioane as a starting wing. -
@crucial ALB was our best back for a couple of seasons, just sensational out there. Gets through so much work.
I reckon ALB at 12, Rieko at 13 brings a lot. Rieko will create space with his pace and strength; he's been one of the highest stats backs in the comp, despite not having support around him to finish off some of the breaks. A bit of tweaking and he'll go well.
Brace yourself for a couple of interesting defensive reads, though, but he's gone pretty well and keeps getting better. Tana v2.0?
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@kiwimurph didnt he play FB in that game?
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Just so we know what we want to see from our 12 check out some of the passes Nonu throws in this video of him last year. There are a couple of absolute rippers. I particularly like the one at 2.05
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@crucial said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Just so we know what we want to see from our 12 check out some of the passes Nonu throws in this video of him last year. There are a couple of absolute rippers. I particularly like the one at 2.05
Holy shit @Rancid-Schnitzel, some top quality material for the wank bank here !
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@nzzp said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@crucial ALB was our best back for a couple of seasons, just sensational out there. Gets through so much work.
I reckon ALB at 12, Rieko at 13 brings a lot. Rieko will create space with his pace and strength; he's been one of the highest stats backs in the comp, despite not having support around him to finish off some of the breaks. A bit of tweaking and he'll go well.
Brace yourself for a couple of interesting defensive reads, though, but he's gone pretty well and keeps getting better. Tana v2.0?
Yep mate, I still not sure who would be best. I like ALB at 13, and think at moment it between Laumape and Havili at 12, but there a lot of tests proposed for this year, so there will be a bit of a mix at times I think. I was pretty keen on Rieko at 13, but as that is usually one of hardest places to defend apparently, I wonder. I know a lot say he holds the ball too much, but with Blues I haven't noticed him doing it over much, he has not been receiving good ball to create much for outsides so I be keen to see more. If I was picking a team, I think I would go for Havili at moment as he plays more of the 2nd 5 role rather than the crash type inside centre.
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@nzzp said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@crucial good decision after good decision, outstanding excecution.
I mean, obviously they don't show the shitty passes, but damn. I miss Ma'a
They do show a pretty shitty chip through into the smallest dead ball area known to man though
If anyone doubts his kicking ability later on the vid he kicks from hand to get what I think may be very close to a 22/22 bounce out. Wasn't that going to be a law trial?
EDIT: I see this is in SR Oz and it's only a 50/22. In the vid Nonu kicks from just outside his 22 and it bounces to touch just inside the opposition 22.
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@taniwharugby said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwimurph didnt he play FB in that game?
You're thinking of Connor Garden Bachop I believe? (who was also excellent and probably more obvious in that game). But if you watch the lines that TUJ ran at 12 and his decision making in that game - there's a lot to like.
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@kiwimurph said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@taniwharugby said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwimurph didnt he play FB in that game?
You're thinking of Connor Garden Bachop I believe? (who was also excellent and probably more obvious in that game). But if you watch the lines that TUJ ran at 12 and his decision making in that game - there's a lot to like.
One swallow does not a girlfriend make (or whatever the saying is)
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taniwharugbyreplied to KiwiMurph on 28 Apr 2021, 22:31 last edited by taniwharugby 28 Apr 2021, 22:33
@kiwimurph indeed I was, all these hyphenated surnames look the same to me!
Based on what I have seen this year, Havili looks to be the guy that we need, and fits with our style of play more.
I think Havili-ALB would be a great mid-field to have a look at with Goodhue out (he and Havili may have had the inside running but for his injury)
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obviously im super bias as a Highlanders fan...but even i wouldn't suggest TUJ after one NPC game last year and one start in super rugby, no matter how good he was
...now if we were talking about Collins....
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@dan54 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@nzzp said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@crucial ALB was our best back for a couple of seasons, just sensational out there. Gets through so much work.
I reckon ALB at 12, Rieko at 13 brings a lot. Rieko will create space with his pace and strength; he's been one of the highest stats backs in the comp, despite not having support around him to finish off some of the breaks. A bit of tweaking and he'll go well.
Brace yourself for a couple of interesting defensive reads, though, but he's gone pretty well and keeps getting better. Tana v2.0?
Yep mate, I still not sure who would be best. I like ALB at 13, and think at moment it between Laumape and Havili at 12
If they start inexperienced players out of position I will be very surprised. ALB at 12, and then someone at 13 ... probably Rieko because of his test experience.
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Unless Wainui plays in the midfield for the Chiefs (I hope not) I expect ALB to always be at centre from this point forward. Obviously he can move to 2nd 5 if required, and is the best equiped to play both positions out of the likely options.
Rieko needs to work on his ball security as I've noticed he has often lost the ball in contact during SRA.
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to me, the make up of the midfield will be linked to the make up of the loose forward trio
If we insist on playing Savea and Cane in 7 & 8 then i think we need a guy who can muscle his way over the advantage line at 12 (which is my guess on the thinking of Goodhue at 12, which i still think is flawed thinking). Then you need another distributor somewhere so i guess it's 13?
In a perfect world i would like two guys in the loosies that can bend the line, a distributor at 12, and someone with genuine pace at 13. I think that provides the best attacking balance.
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@mariner4life that make sense to me
i noticed it last year, Goodhue was hitting it up quite a bit, not even looking for the offload, just crash over the advantage line and look to recycle.
It seems like a bit of a waste when we have the outside backs we do, they were always getting it after midfield crash or back to blind and so not as much field to play with as if they just unleashed a full width backline move
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@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
In a perfect world i would like two guys in the loosies that can bend the line, a distributor at 12, and someone with genuine pace at 13. I think that provides the best attacking balance.
So ... McCaw, Kaino, Nonu and ... er... not Smith?
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