Australia v India
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Nothing is more tragic than Australia losing a cricket series at home.
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@Billy-Tell said in Australia v India:
Nothing is more tragic than Australia losing a cricket series at home.
Especially to a "B" team
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@NTA said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
Yeah I dunno, they've been quite shite in the past and they've had about the same amount of people to select from.
Really? Look at the last decade:
I count 20 series wins out of 30, and 1 drawn. That isn't too shabby, even if they've struggled in swing-friendly New Zealand (in the same period, NZ haven't won in India).
Over the same period, Australia have won 15 series from 33 (or 34) with 4 drawn. The days of Steve Waugh's legendary sides is long gone.
They've obviously got the coaching set up right.......they've always had the batsmen but they actually have some decent fast bowlers for once as well.
And I think that is actually a product of realising their weaknesses away from home. In England against the Duke, and on green seamers in New Zealand, they weren't doing that well. In Australia we provided them roads to bat on but their bowling wasn't consistent enough.
But it is definitely improving.
While I agree India are finally capitilising on the immense human and financial resources that they have that Table for me illustrates a more telling point.
In the past decade India haven't won a series in NZ, England or South Africa but now they've done it twice in Oz.
Sure India have improved but you guys ....
Haven't looked at the combined ANZAC side thread yet but I assume Starc (always a dubious choice IMO) has been dropped
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@dogmeat said in Australia v India:
Sure India have improved but you guys ....
Which I also pointed out in that post. 😉
Go back ten years and India didn't give a shit about anything but winning at home. They'd crank up the dustbowls and pick 2-3 spinners, batting their way to victory.
The last 5 years they've started to round out their approach a bit more.
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@Siam said in Australia v India:
@MN5 i was saying the playing stocks are low in Aus at the moment regarding test cricket. The ones outside of 3 batsmen and 4 bowlers. You said they're fine and then referenced 40 fucking years ago. I offered up the " cupboard" stock examples but obviously have got it wrong.
So who are these cricketers that are better than Harris, Wade khawaja, head and burns?
Well no you said as bare as it's ever been. I merely pointed out it has been very bare in the past too.
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@Siam said in Australia v India:
Coincided with a time that Sheffield Shield was huge. There were many names that never or hardly played for Oz but would have walked into any national side: law, Elliott, divenuto, hills, siddons, maher even Lehman off the top of my head. You had to make 1000 runs every season for at least 3 to get a mention. Now, nobody gets 1000.
Martin Love - averaged 50 in Sheffield Shield - 46 in the few tests he played, but could barely get a game.
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@Chris-B there's a heap of those guys
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Who is the Australian bowling coach?
There has to be some serious questions there.
They hammered the back of a length but didn't bowl nearly enough at the stumps and really struggled to get the ball to swing at all and certainly didn't bowl the right length to get it to swing either. Lyon's bowling plans were also poor.
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@mariner4life said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B there's a heap of those guys
I know - and we couldn't find an NZ grandparent amongst them?!!
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B instead we got Matt Sinclair
Can't be denied he started with a hiss and a roar, two double tons in fuck all tests if I remember rightly ?
That era of Australian Cricket was pretty freakish though, From memory Matthew Hayden only got a chance after Tubby Taylor retired ? he had to wait in the wings for quite some time while Tubs and Slats were doing their thing and then obviously eclipsed them and became one of the greatest openers of all time.
I remember reading an article on the two "young guns" who were knocking on the door, Ricky Ponting and Michael Di Venuto. Obviously one of these guys went on to have a slightly better career than the other.
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@MN5 Yeah it was a weird career for Sinclair - he got 3 huge scores (2 double tons and a 150) and basically bugger all else. After scoring a double ton on debut he then played 3 tests against Australia where his highest score was 24....
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@MN5 Yeah it was a weird career for Sinclair - he got 3 huge scores (2 double tons and a 150) and basically bugger all else. After scoring a double ton on debut he then played 3 tests against Australia where his highest score was 24....
Indeed, he'll be judged historically as yet another Black Caps also ran to be honest.
Back to Australia anyone remember Stuart Law ? when I watched more cricket back in the day he was talked about, 27,080 first class runs at 51.03 and got 54 not out in his only test innings.
Fucken hard to get past Border, Boon and the Waughs on a regular basis I guess.
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@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@MN5 Didn't realise his average was so good! I see he got 100 hundreds in all forms of state/provincial cricket.
Debuted in the same match as Ricky Ponting ( who got 96 ). Tubby Taylor got this too, Mark Waugh got 111 and Slats got 219. Needless to say they hammered Sri Lanka by an innings.
I think that single test illustrates why a guy as good as Law never played another test. Once Steve Waugh was fit again he had no chance.
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Amazing win by India. To pick the team they did and win at the Gabba? Truly remarkable. I have genuinely never seen anything like it in my time as an Aussie cricket supporter.
We've lost home series before, but it's been to genuinely great sides: South Africa with prime
Franz BothaDale Steyn, England with Cook, KP, Broad, Swann et al.This side doesn't have the names, but man they have ticker.
It's hard as an Aussie fan, as there isn't a glaring scapegoat or error made by anyone. We were just beaten. Sure, Mitch Starc tired badly, Nathan Lyon couldn't find anything when we needed him, too many batsmen made a start and then threw their wicket away.
But there's a very real chance our next test XI will be very close to this one. Pucovski will come in for Harris, and maybe Wade will go IF someone can make Shield runs to displace him. But that's not certain.
They will have to reasses how they play Starc as well. On his day he is world leading. I remember he was imperious in Adelaide, but a broken man by Brisbane. This series is hard to assess on that front, though, with it's bubbles and squads and condensed format without breaks.
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B instead we got Matt Sinclair
To be serious. We actually got Aaron Redmond and Tama Canning.
As Aussie cricketers from that generation with Kiwi parents who moved to NZ to play.
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@Rapido said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B instead we got Matt Sinclair
To be serious. We actually got Aaron Redmond and Tama Canning.
As Aussie cricketers from that generation with Kiwi parents who moved to NZ to play.
Two guys in the finest New Zealand tradition of World Class openers and all rounders.
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@barbarian felt like there were more dropped catches than I'd generally expect of your guys in this series. But I guess that was balanced out by India dropping their share.
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@Paekakboyz said in Australia v India:
@barbarian felt like there were more dropped catches than I'd generally expect of your guys in this series. But I guess that was balanced out by India dropping their share.
I can't remember any clangers, besides Paine on Day 5 in Sydney. Whereas Marnus was dropped about 12 times.
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@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@Paekakboyz said in Australia v India:
@barbarian felt like there were more dropped catches than I'd generally expect of your guys in this series. But I guess that was balanced out by India dropping their share.
I can't remember any clangers, besides Paine on Day 5 in Sydney. Whereas Marnus was dropped about 12 times.
Australia were terrible in the field in melbourne.
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@Rapido said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B instead we got Matt Sinclair
To be serious. We actually got Aaron Redmond and Tama Canning.
As Aussie cricketers from that generation with Kiwi parents who moved to NZ to play.
Lou Vincent and Piggy were good pick ups though.
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@KiwiMurph i think it's kade Harvey, an old mate of langer from Scarborough, WA
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@rotated said in Australia v India:
@Rapido said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@Chris-B instead we got Matt Sinclair
To be serious. We actually got Aaron Redmond and Tama Canning.
As Aussie cricketers from that generation with Kiwi parents who moved to NZ to play.
Lou Vincent and Piggy were good pick ups though.
Styris, like Sinclair was just Australian born but NZ raised. Not a pick up.
Vincent, I actually don't know about. I see he played for NZ U19s, which is his first records of any type in the cricket archive, if he was in Australia playing high level cricket he didn't play for any Australian state youth teams, 2nd XIs or academies that were worthy of being recorded. (he is NZ born)
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Vincent is like Mitchell in that he moved to Aust with his parents before returning to NZ.
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Of the genuine pick-ups:
Ronchi was of the era, in discussion. But his re-migration to NZ was a good 5 years after the peak Aussie era had finished.So, a good pickup, But at a time of strength rather than the desperation of 5 years earlier.
Canning and Redmond were both Perth born and WA youth level players who went straight into the NZ academy in 1999. Unfortunately Canning was exactly in the mould of players we had an abundance of (Medium pace dobbler and aggressive batting allrounder). Redmond was a good pickup in that he was a leg-spinning all rounder, something we didn't produce. Transferred in time to batsman and opener, didn't nail international cricket, but 16 odd years of FC cricket contribution to NZ.
Dean Brownlie also a good pickup.
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@Rapido said in Australia v India:
Vincent, I actually don't know about. I see he played for NZ U19s, which is his first records of any type in the cricket archive, if he was in Australia playing high level cricket he didn't play for any Australian state youth teams, 2nd XIs or academies that were worthy of being recorded. (he is NZ born)
He definitely finished high school in Australia and played or at least was picked in a squad with SA Under 18/19s or whatever it would have been at the time before he went back to Auckland.
source: yarning to Vincent himself during a tour match in the mid 00s.
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@barbarian The problem with Starc is he is two different bowlers depending on whether it's a day/night pink ball test or not.
In a day/night pink ball test his record is amazing. His recent record in non-pink ball tests? Not that great.
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Vincent was born in Warkworth, New Zealand and is the son of well known ABC NewsRadio sports announcer Mike Vincent. Vincent became interested in cricket at an early age as his father used to represent Eden Roskill Cricket Club of Auckland in first grade cricket and took Lou to all the international matches at Eden Park.
At the age of 15, his parents separated with Mike and Lou moving to Adelaide in Australia where Lou began playing in the age-tournaments. After Vincent was left out of several important age-group games by his coach, he decided to move back to New Zealand at the age of 18.[6]
When Vincent returned to New Zealand he had the opportunity to play for New Zealand in the 1998 Under 19 Cricket World Cup.
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@barbarian said in Australia v India:
Amazing win by India. To pick the team they did and win at the Gabba? Truly remarkable. I have genuinely never seen anything like it in my time as an Aussie cricket supporter.
We've lost home series before, but it's been to genuinely great sides: South Africa with prime
Franz BothaDale Steyn, England with Cook, KP, Broad, Swann et al.This side doesn't have the names, but man they have ticker.
It's hard as an Aussie fan, as there isn't a glaring scapegoat or error made by anyone. We were just beaten. Sure, Mitch Starc tired badly, Nathan Lyon couldn't find anything when we needed him, too many batsmen made a start and then threw their wicket away.
But there's a very real chance our next test XI will be very close to this one. Pucovski will come in for Harris, and maybe Wade will go IF someone can make Shield runs to displace him. But that's not certain.
They will have to reasses how they play Starc as well. On his day he is world leading. I remember he was imperious in Adelaide, but a broken man by Brisbane. This series is hard to assess on that front, though, with it's bubbles and squads and condensed format without breaks.
Fabulous effort by India.
I think the rain (and the prospect of rain) on the 4th day helped them win this last test.
Judging by Paine's declaration in the third test, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't subscribe to Mark Waugh's "280 is plenty" theory, so I reckon if there hadn't been rain in the offing he would have liked an extra 70 runs. But, the Indians had forced his hand by keeping the series even when they arrived in Brisbane, so good luck to them.
Series averages show not enough substantive contributions by Australian players. Only Marnus, Smith and Paine would be satisfied with their batting efforts and only Cummins and Hazlewood as bowlers.
Pant was superb for India and Gill excellent, but the key man might have been Pujara - faced 154 overs in the series - a lot of work for the Oz bowlers.
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
Nathan Lyon: 9 wickets at 55.11
Mitchell Starc: 11 wickets at 40.72For the series that's a huge issue ^
Particularly as Starc wasn't bowling many overs to help create foot marks for Lyon to bowl into.
Partnerships.
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@NTA said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
Nathan Lyon: 9 wickets at 55.11
Mitchell Starc: 11 wickets at 40.72For the series that's a huge issue ^
Particularly as Starc wasn't bowling many overs to help create foot marks for Lyon to bowl into.
Partnerships.
Yep, but there was a reason Starc wasn't bowling many overs - he was pretty crap.
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@Chris-B said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
Amazing win by India. To pick the team they did and win at the Gabba? Truly remarkable. I have genuinely never seen anything like it in my time as an Aussie cricket supporter.
We've lost home series before, but it's been to genuinely great sides: South Africa with prime
Franz BothaDale Steyn, England with Cook, KP, Broad, Swann et al.This side doesn't have the names, but man they have ticker.
It's hard as an Aussie fan, as there isn't a glaring scapegoat or error made by anyone. We were just beaten. Sure, Mitch Starc tired badly, Nathan Lyon couldn't find anything when we needed him, too many batsmen made a start and then threw their wicket away.
But there's a very real chance our next test XI will be very close to this one. Pucovski will come in for Harris, and maybe Wade will go IF someone can make Shield runs to displace him. But that's not certain.
They will have to reasses how they play Starc as well. On his day he is world leading. I remember he was imperious in Adelaide, but a broken man by Brisbane. This series is hard to assess on that front, though, with it's bubbles and squads and condensed format without breaks.
Fabulous effort by India.
I think the rain (and the prospect of rain) on the 4th day helped them win this last test.
Judging by Paine's declaration in the third test, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't subscribe to Mark Waugh's "280 is plenty" theory, so I reckon if there hadn't been rain in the offing he would have liked an extra 70 runs. But, the Indians had forced his hand by keeping the series even when they arrived in Brisbane, so good luck to them.
Well also given the history of cricket at the Gabba, setting a team 320-odd on Day 5 is a pretty safe bet.
I do believe if a few things broke the way of Australia they could have won this series 3-1. But they didn't, and India were good enough to step up on Day 5 when it counted.
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@Donsteppa not being able to spell "boobs" or "vagina" has spilled into English surnames... Poor bastard.
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@barbarian The problem with Starc is he is two different bowlers depending on whether it's a day/night pink ball test or not.
In a day/night pink ball test his record is amazing. His recent record in non-pink ball tests? Not that great.
He and Boult are similar in that they both thrive with the white/pink balls, but with the red don't look nearly as threatening especially when there isn't swing.
Starc's action is also not particularly economical so he's better in short bursts, but will get burnt out pretty quickly.
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Something I’ve learned reading this thread is we seem to have a new filter going. It seems that if you type in the word p o a c h you now get pickup. Cool.
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