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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516072" data-time="1442321796">
<div>
<p>Mary is a CS or any recipient of Govt money..</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Does this then mean that the equations you illustrated previously only apply to CS employees and those in receipt of, in effect, benefits?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="516075" data-time="1442323831">
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<p>You're recomending socialist economics, as laid out by a guy who lost hundreds of millions betting Russia wouldn't default... </p>
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<p>Its a book explaining the realities of money and the treasury payments system. Not a recommended political program</p>
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<p>Its got zero to do with this book but Warren is a very wealthy talented man. But its like saying his book is wrong or not worth reading as he once made a bad bet. Even though he made many more successful bets and overall came out well on top.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="516078" data-time="1442325404">
<div>
<p>Does this then mean that the equations you illustrated previously only apply to CS employees and those in receipt of, in effect, benefits?</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Any entity who receives a payment from the treasury.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Some argue yes but bond sales comes first etc. But it really makes no difference. These are in simple terms the final entries. If you want the full details and explanations refer to the links above.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516040" data-time="1442312422">
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<p>This thread is about BRITISH Politics</p>
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<p>You bought neo liberalism into this thread, I was unaware I could comment on it in the NZ context . </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516082" data-time="1442326001">
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<p>Just saw Corbyn's TUC speech (or the 2nd half). It was VG. He was in great form</p>
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<p><strong>However the UK media will continue their onslaught no matter what</strong></p>
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<p>Good.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="516110" data-time="1442348114"><p>
I'm only peaking from behind the curtain, but can someone tell me if socialists in Britain are an abstract minority?</p></blockquote>
<br>
I hope so.<br><br>
Christ Corbyn is a twat <a class="bbc_url" href="http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11513749">http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11513749</a> couldn't put his idiot world view aside and had to make a pointless gesture . -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="516110" data-time="1442348114">
<div>
<p>I'm only <strong>peak</strong>ing from behind the curtain, but can someone tell me if socialists in Britain are an abstract minority?</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>sssh - don't tell Winger</p> -
<p>Winger, OK so you're a MMTer. Mosler's stuff isn't new. All I'll say is Accounting isn't Economics. And even Mosler doesn't deny that creating money is inflationary as you do.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Think about what you are saying. If creation of new money is so simple for a sovereign nation why doesn't the UK govt just direct the BofE to "print" 65 million £1,000,000 notes and distribute them to everyone so everybody would be rich and there would be no need to worry anymore. You wouldn't need to build all those houses, everybody could just get a builder to put up one and pay them from their £1m.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The answer is of course that the government can print money but not wealth. Wealth can still be made only through toil. The builder who you might ask to put up the house for him perceives quite rightly that the value of the effort he puts into building your house is worth more than the £1m for which you had to do precisely nothing. In fact he wants you to give him your £1m note and 200,000 other ones. THAT is where inflation comes from.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now you may say that's an absurd scenario, and it is, but only in degree. Real markets deal with the value judgements people make between things they can purchase with the sweat of their own toil. The failure of the socialist dream is in not recognising that people don't believe that everybody should get the £1m note, that some are more deserving of it than others by virtue of a special talent, skill or effort and they create markets to trade them whether we like it or not. </p> -
<p>I read this thread as JC being the knowledgable professor teaching, from experience, to the noisiest student, who we all know will never pass but is still entitled.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm finding it remarkeable that you are finding the strength to reply, JC, but I truly appreciate that you are as at least I'm learning something a bit better from one side of the story</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="516061" data-time="1442316688">
<div>
<p>Basically?</p>
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<p>Bank owns govt bonds. Government print cash to buy back those bonds (putting cash on bank balance sheet). Bank then uses cash to prop up its reserves, maintain its dividend, speculate on the junk bond market & emerging market accounts where yeilds are high & pay off its fines incured on PPI, Libor etc.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thats the beauty of why its not been inflationary yet (except in emerging markets where is been VERY inflationary), people (tho' not the banks & probably not the BOE nor Fed) didn't realise quite how fucked the banks were, nor how debt averse most businesses were, so the Govt - Bank - Small business / consumer flow that QE normally follows stopped before getting to the 3rd bit.</p>
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<p> </p>
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<p>^This.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As I alluded to earlier, it's very seductive for people to look at the results of QE and say "Wow, all those economists were wrong, printing money doesn't cause inflation at all, look at the UK and the US and the EU, they've got hardly any inflation and they've pumped in trillions" The fact is we don't know what the impact is. But the other way of considering it is "Wow, what if the economists were right? What kind of nightmare is the QE masking?" And the fact is it was always intended to mask the nightmares, by their own admission it's why the Central Banks are doing it.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="516133" data-time="1442357175"><p>
I hope so.<br><br>
Christ Corbyn is a twat <a class="bbc_url" href="http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11513749">http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11513749</a> couldn't put his idiot world view aside and had to make a pointless gesture .</p></blockquote>
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That was just the propaganda media mate. Had nothing to do with Corbyn. <br><br>
This kind of thing makes Corbyn unelectable. If he is to have any chance of winning he has to remain a small target. I take back what I said about him being a possible long shot. He doesn't have a snowflake's. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="516175" data-time="1442366982"><p>
That was just the propaganda media mate. Had nothing to do with Corbyn. <br><br>
This kind of thing makes Corbyn unelectable. If he is to have any chance of winning he has to remain a small target. I take back what I said about him being a possible long shot. He doesn't have a snowflake's.</p></blockquote>
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Isn't it awful how the media misrepresent every stupid thing he says or does? Well actually they don't ,but his supporters think they do . Which is convenient when you're tying yourself in knots trying to explain away his latest gaffe. -
<p>Corbyn's background:</p>
<p>
</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p>Corbyn attended the independent <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_House_School' title="Castle House School">Castle House Preparatory School</a> in <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport,Shropshire' title="Newport, Shropshire">Newport, Shropshire</a>, and <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams'_Grammar_School' title="Adams' Grammar School">Adams' Grammar School</a>, a boarding and day school also in Newport.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-roth_profile-9'><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a></sup><sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-shropstar-10'><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a></sup> While still at school Corbyn became active in the <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrekin%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29" title="Wrekin (UK Parliament constituency)">Wrekin Constituency</a> <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Socialists_(UK)" title="Young Socialists (UK)">Young Socialists</a> and his <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituency_Labour_Party' title="Constituency Labour Party">local Labour Party</a>, as well as the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_Against_Cruel_Sports' title="League Against Cruel Sports">League Against Cruel Sports</a>.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-shropstar-10'><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a></sup> He gained two A-Levels with 'E' grades before leaving school at 18.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-11'><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a></sup> After leaving school, he spent two years doing <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Service_Overseas' title="Voluntary Service Overseas">Voluntary Service Overseas</a> in <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica' title="Jamaica">Jamaica</a> before being employed as a full-time organiser for the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Union_of_Public_Employees' title="National Union of Public Employees">National Union of Public Employees</a>, followed by a brief period of study at <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_London_Polytechnic" title="North London Polytechnic">North London Polytechnic</a>, which he left without completing a degree.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-roth_profile-9'><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a></sup><sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-Hattenstone-12'><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a></sup></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Corbyn later worked as an official with the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Union_of_Tailors_and_Garment_Workers' title="National Union of Tailors and Garment Workers">National Union of Tailors and Garment Workers</a>, became a member of a <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_health_authority' title="District health authority">district health authority</a> and in 1974 was elected to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Haringey' title="London Borough of Haringey">Haringey Council</a>, representing <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harringay' title="Harringay">Harringay</a> <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wards_of_the_United_Kingdom" title="Wards of the United Kingdom">Ward</a> until 1983.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-ft-7'><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a></sup><sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn#cite_note-jeremycorbyn.org.uk-13'><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a></sup> Corbyn worked on <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn' title="Tony Benn">Tony Benn</a>'s <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)_deputy_leadership_election,_1981' title="Labour Party (UK) deputy leadership election, 1981">unsuccessful 1981 campaign</a> to become <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deputy_Leader_of_the_Labour_Party" title="Deputy Leader of the Labour Party">Deputy Leader of the Labour Party</a> and was elected Secretary of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Islington' title="London Borough of Islington">Islington Borough</a> Labour Group.</p>
<p> </p>
</blockquote> -
<p>TBF Tim the number of MP's of any Parliament with impressive CV's is always going to be a very very low number.</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p> </p>
<p>After leaving Eton in 1984,<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron#cite_note-35'><span>[</span>35<span>]</span></a></sup> Cameron started a nine-month <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_year' title="Gap year">gap year</a>. He worked as a researcher for his godfather <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Rathbone' title="Tim Rathbone">Tim Rathbone</a>, then Conservative MP for <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewes_(UK_Parliament_constituency)' title="Lewes (UK Parliament constituency)">Lewes</a>. In his three months, he attended debates in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom' title="House of Commons of the United Kingdom">House of Commons</a>.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron#cite_note-Tim_Rathbone-36'><span>[</span>36<span>]</span></a></sup> Through his father, he was then employed for a further three months in <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong' title="Hong Kong">Hong Kong</a> by <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardine_Matheson_Holdings" title="Jardine Matheson Holdings">Jardine Matheson</a> as a 'ship jumper', an administrative post </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cameron studied <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy,Politics_and_Economics' title="Philosophy, Politics and Economics">Philosophy, Politics and Economics</a> (PPE) at <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasenose_College,Oxford' title="Brasenose College, Oxford">Brasenose College, Oxford</a>. He then joined the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Research_Department' title="Conservative Research Department">Conservative Research Department</a> and became <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_advisers(UK_government)' title="Special advisers (UK government)">special adviser</a>, first to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Lamont' title="Norman Lamont">Norman Lamont</a> and then to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Howard' title="Michael Howard">Michael Howard</a>. He was Director of Corporate Affairs at <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Communications' title="Carlton Communications">Carlton Communications</a> for seven years. Cameron first stood for Parliament in <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford(UK_Parliament_constituency)' title="Stafford (UK Parliament constituency)">Stafford</a> in 1997. He ran on a <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism' title="Euroscepticism">Eurosceptic</a> platform, breaking with his party's then-policy by opposing British membership of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro' title="Euro">single European currency</a>, and was defeated by a swing close to the national average. He was first elected to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom' title="Parliament of the United Kingdom">Parliament</a> in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,2001' title="United Kingdom general election, 2001">2001 general election</a> for the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxfordshire' title="Oxfordshire">Oxfordshire</a> constituency of <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witney(UK_Parliament_constituency)' title="Witney (UK Parliament constituency)">Witney</a>. He was promoted to the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty's_Most_Loyal_Opposition_(United_Kingdom)' title="Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition (United Kingdom)">Opposition</a> <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontbencher' title="Frontbencher">front bench</a> two years later and rose rapidly to become head of policy co-ordination during the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005' title="United Kingdom general election, 2005">2005 general election campaign</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>David Cameron inherited £300,000 from his father's will, at that time it was just under the £325,000 threshold on which tax of 40 per cent is paid. The Camerons' family fortune was built up by his late father, Ian Cameron, who had worked as a stockbroker in the City. Ian Cameron used multi-million pound investment funds based in offshore tax havens, such as Jersey, Panama City, and Geneva, to increase the family wealth. In 1979 he took advantage of the end of capital controls made by Margaret Thatcher during her first month in power. The change in the law made it legal to take money out of the country without it being taxed or subject to any financial controls by the UK government</p>
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<p> </p>
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<p> </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="516133" data-time="1442357175">
<div>
<p>I hope so.<br><br>
Christ Corbyn is a twat <a class="bbc_url" href="http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11513749">http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11513749</a> couldn't put his idiot world view aside and had to make a pointless gesture .</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> Come on. This article is ridiculous. The media is following the throw mud and keep on doing it and hope some sticks approach.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So far it hasn't worked but that will not stop them. Unfortunately some still see papers as news rather than just (often ridiculous) propaganda.</p>
British Politics