Players to build the team around?
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@MN5 said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@nostrildamus said in Players to build the team around?:
@Winger said in Players to build the team around?:
NZ haven't great player now. Clarke looked promising but only for one match
We were spoiled in the recent past. Starting with Carter and McCaw. But add in Brodie Allan Retallick and the likes of Nonu and Smith etc. Also Coles at his best. I'm sure they will come but not yet
Aaron Smith is a great player.
Greatest ever 9 for us? I think so looking at the list below:
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
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greatest for us?
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
A Smith is weirdly underrated in a way, in that he has probably been our best and most important player for about 5 years, and yet still doesn't get the respect he deserves. And it's not like his body of work before that was already top drawer.
Could be some of that respect was flushed down the (disabled) toilet.
why?
Christ it was a joke man. I think he's awesome. Wish Bachop had hung around because he's the only one I reckon compares with him. But again, that's based on one incredible year (1995).
I’m going Chris Laidlaw, part of this was cos he came to my wedding.
I once had a conversation with John Dugan, but that doesn't make him the greatest ever flyhalf.
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@MN5 said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@nostrildamus said in Players to build the team around?:
@Winger said in Players to build the team around?:
NZ haven't great player now. Clarke looked promising but only for one match
We were spoiled in the recent past. Starting with Carter and McCaw. But add in Brodie Allan Retallick and the likes of Nonu and Smith etc. Also Coles at his best. I'm sure they will come but not yet
Aaron Smith is a great player.
Greatest ever 9 for us? I think so looking at the list below:
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
greatest for us?
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
A Smith is weirdly underrated in a way, in that he has probably been our best and most important player for about 5 years, and yet still doesn't get the respect he deserves. And it's not like his body of work before that was already top drawer.
Could be some of that respect was flushed down the (disabled) toilet.
why?
Christ it was a joke man. I think he's awesome. Wish Bachop had hung around because he's the only one I reckon compares with him. But again, that's based on one incredible year (1995).
I’m going Chris Laidlaw, part of this was cos he came to my wedding.
Jimmy Mill for me based on conversations I had with my great grandmother about him.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@MN5 said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@nostrildamus said in Players to build the team around?:
@Winger said in Players to build the team around?:
NZ haven't great player now. Clarke looked promising but only for one match
We were spoiled in the recent past. Starting with Carter and McCaw. But add in Brodie Allan Retallick and the likes of Nonu and Smith etc. Also Coles at his best. I'm sure they will come but not yet
Aaron Smith is a great player.
Greatest ever 9 for us? I think so looking at the list below:
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
greatest for us?
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
A Smith is weirdly underrated in a way, in that he has probably been our best and most important player for about 5 years, and yet still doesn't get the respect he deserves. And it's not like his body of work before that was already top drawer.
Could be some of that respect was flushed down the (disabled) toilet.
why?
Christ it was a joke man. I think he's awesome. Wish Bachop had hung around because he's the only one I reckon compares with him. But again, that's based on one incredible year (1995).
I’m going Chris Laidlaw, part of this was cos he came to my wedding.
I once had a conversation with John Dugan, but that doesn't make him the greatest ever flyhalf.
Any relation to Hacksaw Jim ? At least my one is a household name
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@Kiwiwomble said in Players to build the team around?:
i thought clarke has still only put one step wrong, the kick from the mark on the weekend
hes been solid under both attacking and defensive high ball and hasn't shied away for graft, the only think he hasn't done is some rampaging run but we havent really given him the ball to do that so not his fault
Last two tests he’s got a bit of ball but the Aussie and Argie defence really crowded him.
Clarke’s got a bit to learn as you would expect for a young player in his first test season, but our midfield is still not impacting the game as it should in attack which other players can feed off.
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@ACT-Crusader yeah, definitely got some ball but i felt it tending to be in congestion
Id like to see him given some space...get the momentum up and see what kind of holes he can find/make
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
Could be some of that respect was flushed down the (disabled) toilet.
It made a great line in The World's End movie
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@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Conor Murry is more of a kicking halfback, controlling the game. And then Marshall who had an average pass, but was a dynamite rugby player with his running and tackling.
I'd argue Joost was at least as good, as he played well in so many different facets of the game. He was some player.
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@nzzp Joost is my guy
Smith is better than both the Australians IMO, and Murray as well. They all played different game styles though.
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@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp Joost is my guy
Smith is better than both the Australians IMO, and Murray as well. They all played different game styles though.
I have memories of his kicking game - running off a scrum, and then grubbering the ball into space. Not something we've seen against the rush defence, but so much better than chip kicks.
What a player. Arse that he got motor neuron disease - truly one of the greatest 9s to play the game
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@nostrildamus said in Players to build the team around?:
@Winger said in Players to build the team around?:
NZ haven't great player now. Clarke looked promising but only for one match
We were spoiled in the recent past. Starting with Carter and McCaw. But add in Brodie Allan Retallick and the likes of Nonu and Smith etc. Also Coles at his best. I'm sure they will come but not yet
Aaron Smith is a great player.
Greatest ever 9 for us? I think so looking at the list below:
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
greatest for us?
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
A Smith is weirdly underrated in a way, in that he has probably been our best and most important player for about 5 years, and yet still doesn't get the respect he deserves. And it's not like his body of work before that was already top drawer.
Could be some of that respect was flushed down the (disabled) toilet.
why?
Christ it was a joke man. I think he's awesome. Wish Bachop had hung around because he's the only one I reckon compares with him. But again, that's based on one incredible year (1995).
Bachop was like A Smith's forerunner. Great passer
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@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
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@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
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@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
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@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
Massive fan of Gregan and he was a dominant player but the cupboard beyond him had moths in it. Whitaker probably had 1-2 seasons where he was okay but Henjak and others were simply provincial level.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
Massive fan of Gregan and he was a dominant player but the cupboard beyond him had moths in it. Whitaker probably had 1-2 seasons where he was okay but Henjak and others were simply provincial level.
yep, wasn't his fault he had to keep playing, there was nothing behind him
i have huge respect for Gregan.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
Massive fan of Gregan and he was a dominant player but the cupboard beyond him had moths in it. Whitaker probably had 1-2 seasons where he was okay but Henjak and others were simply provincial level.
Gregan was class, I think you Aussies have always underrated him a bit.
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Even when Gregan had the big steps backwards which frustrated many of the Aussie faithful, the upside of his leadership and experience outweighed the benefits of the other options.
Some argue that was to the detriment of the team, but this was one of the factors in his longevity.
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I think that if you're looking at people who are in the conversation for being one of the five greatest ABs of the past 50 years, then probably Retallick is the only one we have at present and he probably only gets a mention.
But, if you're talking about people who are World Class to the extent of being potential winners of a World Player of the Year award - then we obviously have Beauden, then Aaron Smith, Sam Whitelock, Sam Cane, Richie Moúnga and doubtless several others.
Big problem is that many of our best guys are approaching the end of the road or are at the very start of it.
I think the guys in the middle tier are not carrying the load they should. They're either out of form, being mis-selected or doing foolish things that are costing us dearly.
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@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
five greatest ABs of the past 50 years
good thread idea, get it set up.
Of course mine will be the last 33-odd years because i don't remember a single player before the 87 World Cup
