Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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@Gunner said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA As a neutral are we overreacting or were we really that shit?
I can't speak for all of you as a collective ;), but some of you may be egging it a bit too much in terms of this game being a disaster beyond all disasters. The fact is, this has happened before (RWC2019 SF) and will happen again.
Argentina won the way you always beat the All Blacks: minimise your errors, make your tackles, and don't take any shit at set piece.
I've said it a few times the last month, but I think as fans you guys occasionally get carried away with the freakish skills some of your guys possess, and think that is the difference i.e. that they're just better as a group than everyone. Really, its just that the fifteen individuals you put on the park at one time (fourteen is S Barrett is playing ;)) are probably better players than the other blokes, but what is that saying about Champion Team versus Champion Individuals? Doesn't always work.
@mariner4life - in the same period - has pointed out a few times that when under the pump, the ABs haven't really looked that special. Nothing more than good even in Sydney - it was either dinky kicks breaking things open for you + counterattack (26-0 at halftime), or getting whacked (first part of the second half).
I count one set piece try in the period - and that was a 5 metre scrum where our flanker didn't get off in time at ANZ, leaving the wing stranded.
That has been the AB game plan since Henry / McCaw left: defend, counterattack, and (occasionally) pull off your skills and fitness, complemented occasionally by the odd piece of streaky bullshit. And I'm not saying those skills and fitness aren't great, because the winning record over the last decade speaks for itself.
BUT these skills and fitness aren't really built around any structure besides "You're the Fucking All Blacks, go out and win".
Looking at the last few weeks, maybe the depth isn't as good as everyone thinks. I'll talk about the tight five, because that's my jam.
Big concern for the Wallabies was second row in particular, but we generally stood up physically with Philip, LSL, and even Simmons. On the flipside, guys like Tuipolotou have not shown up with consistency. Whitelock is still a stalwart but looked a helluva lot better with BBBR (as would any of us!)
Your props are fine around the park but getting a bit of a lesson at scrum time, as a collective - that also comes back to your second row being a little frail. The combination there is important, and what stands out is you're not learning on the run. A couple of times the Wallabies put the ABs under pressure and you didn't adjust.
Must say that Coles is a fuckwit who throws his toys when he's not allowed to just swan around on the wing while everyone else does the hard yards (like Codie Taylor).
The backs are going through the motions, and look it isn't park footy and you can't always have a highly structured plan, but "play what's in front of you" has dangers of its own, especially when half the backline changes in the space of 2 weeks from A to B and back again.
Maybe making 9+ changes two weeks in a row wasn't the right decision. Maybe the selections and combinations are just wrong.
Regardless, you haven't really moved the needle in close to a decade, tactically speaking. It makes the ABs an easy target for coaches to plan for: front up physically, don't miss your tackles, and don't give away cheap ball. Of course, that relies on players executing and the Wallabies continue to be plagued by inconsistency.
Contrast Brisbane and Wellington versus ANZ and Auckland from a Wallabies point of view. Chalk and cheese in terms of execution.
The most burning example of this was Caleb Clarke: breaks 8 tackles on his way to setting up a try in Auckland, but was well looked after tonight. Simple game, really.
Brilliant analysis. Well done.
We used to be always one step ahead in our thinking and game plans. Where the fuck had the innovation gone?
Wherever Wayne Smith is at
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That’s good analysis from NTA. It reminds me of 1999 when NZ had talent to burn and thought they just had to turn up to win. ‘Just pass the ball to Jonah’. iIt’s also a lack of respect for the opposition and too much belief in their own myth. Most of all, it’s poor leadership and coaching. Foster’s a dead man walking.
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@Gunner said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
We used to be always one step ahead in our thinking and game plans. Where the fuck had the innovation gone?
I think it is because we have been winning, it usually takes failure to grow and we are now failing. I thought we started failing some time ago and the RWC semi should have triggered change, but 2 wins out of 5 and losing to the 10th ranked side in the world should be enough hopefully.
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@Gunner said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Brilliant analysis. Well done.
Ta.
We used to be always one step ahead in our thinking and game plans. Where the fuck had the innovation gone?
Think back to 2007 and what happened immediately thereafter: No Fucking More.
The ABs from the top of NZ Rugby right down were sick of being called chokers and decided the pursuit of excellence was never ending; satisfaction was only achieved for periods of about 6 hours at a time, and only after holding a trophy. Interestingly, from all accounts it was very much like Steve Waugh's journey as a leader in Aussie Cricket. Line-in-the-sand stuff.
Now where are you? A lot of the guys from 2011 have moved on. McCaw didn't need to do much more than look at someone carrying on like a pelican to bring them in line. Can you say the same about Read? No, because he was a whiner unless he was winning.
I wouldn't call it complacency, but the fire has faded a little. You're victims of your own success in a way. I actually didn't rate Hansen as much of a coach tho he helped improved the numbers; fact was your opposition didn't really improve in the corresponding period
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@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Gunner said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA As a neutral are we overreacting or were we really that shit?
I can't speak for all of you as a collective ;), but some of you may be egging it a bit too much in terms of this game being a disaster beyond all disasters. The fact is, this has happened before (RWC2019 SF) and will happen again.
Argentina won the way you always beat the All Blacks: minimise your errors, make your tackles, and don't take any shit at set piece.
I've said it a few times the last month, but I think as fans you guys occasionally get carried away with the freakish skills some of your guys possess, and think that is the difference i.e. that they're just better as a group than everyone. Really, its just that the fifteen individuals you put on the park at one time (fourteen is S Barrett is playing ;)) are probably better players than the other blokes, but what is that saying about Champion Team versus Champion Individuals? Doesn't always work.
@mariner4life - in the same period - has pointed out a few times that when under the pump, the ABs haven't really looked that special. Nothing more than good even in Sydney - it was either dinky kicks breaking things open for you + counterattack (26-0 at halftime), or getting whacked (first part of the second half).
I count one set piece try in the period - and that was a 5 metre scrum where our flanker didn't get off in time at ANZ, leaving the wing stranded.
That has been the AB game plan since Henry / McCaw left: defend, counterattack, and (occasionally) pull off your skills and fitness, complemented occasionally by the odd piece of streaky bullshit. And I'm not saying those skills and fitness aren't great, because the winning record over the last decade speaks for itself.
BUT these skills and fitness aren't really built around any structure besides "You're the Fucking All Blacks, go out and win".
Looking at the last few weeks, maybe the depth isn't as good as everyone thinks. I'll talk about the tight five, because that's my jam.
Big concern for the Wallabies was second row in particular, but we generally stood up physically with Philip, LSL, and even Simmons. On the flipside, guys like Tuipolotou have not shown up with consistency. Whitelock is still a stalwart but looked a helluva lot better with BBBR (as would any of us!)
Your props are fine around the park but getting a bit of a lesson at scrum time, as a collective - that also comes back to your second row being a little frail. The combination there is important, and what stands out is you're not learning on the run. A couple of times the Wallabies put the ABs under pressure and you didn't adjust.
Must say that Coles is a fuckwit who throws his toys when he's not allowed to just swan around on the wing while everyone else does the hard yards (like Codie Taylor).
The backs are going through the motions, and look it isn't park footy and you can't always have a highly structured plan, but "play what's in front of you" has dangers of its own, especially when half the backline changes in the space of 2 weeks from A to B and back again.
Maybe making 9+ changes two weeks in a row wasn't the right decision. Maybe the selections and combinations are just wrong.
Regardless, you haven't really moved the needle in close to a decade, tactically speaking. It makes the ABs an easy target for coaches to plan for: front up physically, don't miss your tackles, and don't give away cheap ball. Of course, that relies on players executing and the Wallabies continue to be plagued by inconsistency.
Contrast Brisbane and Wellington versus ANZ and Auckland from a Wallabies point of view. Chalk and cheese in terms of execution.
The most burning example of this was Caleb Clarke: breaks 8 tackles on his way to setting up a try in Auckland, but was well looked after tonight. Simple game, really.
Brilliant analysis. Well done.
We used to be always one step ahead in our thinking and game plans. Where the fuck had the innovation gone?
Wherever Wayne Smith is at
#tonybrown
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@Kiwiwomble said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@canefan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Gunner said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA As a neutral are we overreacting or were we really that shit?
I can't speak for all of you as a collective ;), but some of you may be egging it a bit too much in terms of this game being a disaster beyond all disasters. The fact is, this has happened before (RWC2019 SF) and will happen again.
Argentina won the way you always beat the All Blacks: minimise your errors, make your tackles, and don't take any shit at set piece.
I've said it a few times the last month, but I think as fans you guys occasionally get carried away with the freakish skills some of your guys possess, and think that is the difference i.e. that they're just better as a group than everyone. Really, its just that the fifteen individuals you put on the park at one time (fourteen is S Barrett is playing ;)) are probably better players than the other blokes, but what is that saying about Champion Team versus Champion Individuals? Doesn't always work.
@mariner4life - in the same period - has pointed out a few times that when under the pump, the ABs haven't really looked that special. Nothing more than good even in Sydney - it was either dinky kicks breaking things open for you + counterattack (26-0 at halftime), or getting whacked (first part of the second half).
I count one set piece try in the period - and that was a 5 metre scrum where our flanker didn't get off in time at ANZ, leaving the wing stranded.
That has been the AB game plan since Henry / McCaw left: defend, counterattack, and (occasionally) pull off your skills and fitness, complemented occasionally by the odd piece of streaky bullshit. And I'm not saying those skills and fitness aren't great, because the winning record over the last decade speaks for itself.
BUT these skills and fitness aren't really built around any structure besides "You're the Fucking All Blacks, go out and win".
Looking at the last few weeks, maybe the depth isn't as good as everyone thinks. I'll talk about the tight five, because that's my jam.
Big concern for the Wallabies was second row in particular, but we generally stood up physically with Philip, LSL, and even Simmons. On the flipside, guys like Tuipolotou have not shown up with consistency. Whitelock is still a stalwart but looked a helluva lot better with BBBR (as would any of us!)
Your props are fine around the park but getting a bit of a lesson at scrum time, as a collective - that also comes back to your second row being a little frail. The combination there is important, and what stands out is you're not learning on the run. A couple of times the Wallabies put the ABs under pressure and you didn't adjust.
Must say that Coles is a fuckwit who throws his toys when he's not allowed to just swan around on the wing while everyone else does the hard yards (like Codie Taylor).
The backs are going through the motions, and look it isn't park footy and you can't always have a highly structured plan, but "play what's in front of you" has dangers of its own, especially when half the backline changes in the space of 2 weeks from A to B and back again.
Maybe making 9+ changes two weeks in a row wasn't the right decision. Maybe the selections and combinations are just wrong.
Regardless, you haven't really moved the needle in close to a decade, tactically speaking. It makes the ABs an easy target for coaches to plan for: front up physically, don't miss your tackles, and don't give away cheap ball. Of course, that relies on players executing and the Wallabies continue to be plagued by inconsistency.
Contrast Brisbane and Wellington versus ANZ and Auckland from a Wallabies point of view. Chalk and cheese in terms of execution.
The most burning example of this was Caleb Clarke: breaks 8 tackles on his way to setting up a try in Auckland, but was well looked after tonight. Simple game, really.
Brilliant analysis. Well done.
We used to be always one step ahead in our thinking and game plans. Where the fuck had the innovation gone?
Wherever Wayne Smith is at
#tonybrown
He and Jamie come as a team
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@Frank said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I am 100% supporting the Argies in 2 weeks.
I hope we lose and lose badly.
I want Foster gooooooooooooooooone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That’s idiotic.
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Well done to the Argies. Brilliant!
I couldn’t comment until now as I was watching the game (and after) with a senior work colleague who kept commenting ‘well, you guys really suck, lucky this is a friendly’. The good news is that I finished the game without killing them.
There is too much bad news for one post. Simply put, we we’re comprehensively outplayed by the Argies. It was probably always going to happen one day, but its very 2020 that it happens this year.
It’s predictable too; none of these coaches (and perhaps the management team in general) would be selected by any other major nation as an assistant, let alone as the head coach. Those roosters are coming home and will take our record with it. Compare it to 2004 when we pried Smith off Northampton - this year we got back Mooar. Its fucking funny to think that this group of coaches would be good enough. Plumtree values physicality and picked 190cm locks. This was always coming.
Sotutu might be the only player who can sleep tonight but even he missed his opportunity to put them away by throwing a pass that just didn’t need to be thrown.
I honestly can't recall the All Blacks being beaten so comprehensively in my living memory. We have a strategic plan which is 7 years old and hasn’t changed despite a Lions loss and a semi-final exit. Now the 10th ranked team in the work can beat us using a ridiculously simple game plan: make your tackles and ride on the AB passive defense to get more than 15 points. Get that close and then let the passion take you over the line as they panic in the last 20.
What, and how many changes can and should we make to get past this absolute fucking shambles?
This was, as Fozzie basically accepted, basically the top team minus Ofa.
What a fucking disgrace.
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@Squirrel said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
We won't need to isolate coming home.
Its clear we can't catch anything
Quote of the Day
Bravo
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What made the loss even worse is the constant lecturing/talking down by Gardner coming through the ref mic.
I don’t have too many issues with the penalties he awarded other than the Jordie Barrett one which was costly given it provided 30+ free metres of field position, but his whole approach to how he talks to the players on both sides is appalling. Not sure what he’s trying to prove out there but it comes across terribly.
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We should have been playing you lot this weekend when you're ripe for the picking.
Fucking COVID
I'll get my coat
Still at least you know how it feels to be #WelshForADay
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@MiketheSnow the sad thing (from our point of view) is you’re not even kidding.
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@ACT-Crusader I think everyone goes through this. A point at which your opponents catch up or pass you, and you have to rebuild. Is it game plan or players or leadership. Foster has just started his coaching reign. The World Cup showed we had problems. Not every game but when a team gets it right. He may may do what is required - let’s see what happens by the end of the tournament.
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@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@ACT-Crusader I think everyone goes through this. A point at which your opponents catch up or pass you, and you have to rebuild. Is it game plan or players or leadership. Foster has just started his coaching reign. The World Cup showed we had problems. Not every game but when a team gets it right. He may may do what is required - let’s see what happens by the end of the tournament.
Disagree mate, it’s same old, same old from the last 3 or so years... continuity at its worst.
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@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@ACT-Crusader I think everyone goes through this. A point at which your opponents catch up or pass you, and you have to rebuild. Is it game plan or players or leadership. Foster has just started his coaching reign. The World Cup showed we had problems. Not every game but when a team gets it right. He may may do what is required - let’s see what happens by the end of the tournament.
Fucken hell, we have had Foster on the Fern the entire time.
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@MiketheSnow said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
We should have been playing you lot this weekend when you're ripe for the picking.
Fucking COVID
I'll get my coat
Still at least you know how it feels to be #WelshForADay
And just like on the 6th of October 2007, on a train to Cardiff, I mocked the losing Aussies and wondered how far they'd fallen...thus, I did it to your mob this morning...only to find myself in the same pity lifeboat
You got decent players and aninspiring shit coaching staff too huh?
