Chiefs v Crusaders
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Will try and read through the thread ... ust finished watching the recording...
But totally ironical ( ) that a bullshit try should be awarded to the Sith immediately after the Chiefs escape a red card.
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@sparky said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@antipodean said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@sparky said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@ACT-Crusader said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Boshier is a quality player. Would like to see him get a chance in the Nth / Sth game.
So much strength in the Nth backrow. Some quality players will miss out.
Chances should go to players who make good decisions first and foremost.
In the recent AB podcast, Ted hit the nail on the head when he said that the problem in the 2019 RWC Semi was that the ABs were not mentally as strong as England were in that game.
The real challenge for the AB selectors will be not just picking out the best athletes in the next few years but guys who can possess the sort of steel that McCaw, Kaino and Nonu always had for RWC knockout games.
That steel was forged in the fires of RWC and test match failure. We will see how this next group of players react to adversity.
BTW how did they give that Crusaders try in the 60th minute? That's a bad beat
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@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones when have I steered you wrong?
In this thread!
@No-Quarter yeah I posted up the law. Refs ruling it like forward pass when it's different.
Sorry I missed that. Yup amateur hour.
Crusaders too good in the end, but that kind of decision is similar to what drives people crazy when it happens to their team against the ABs. You just can't afford really basic mistakes like that going against you if you want to have a chance, especially when it directly leads to a try.
Also brings into question the supposed intentional knock on by Stevenson. His hand was facing backwards...
No downwards fair call Yc
Any chance you can explain where to find the law about downwards?
palm facing the ground on contact In front of your
body is a knock down not back wards
If he had attempted to knock it upwards to retain
The ball fair enough but he didn’t
So he knocked it downwards so penalty
I suppose it cost the chiefs the game well
no it didn’t
So who caresIgnoring that he attempted to catch and not knock it down - I see you unskilfully avoided answering the question. Show me the law where it's a penalty for knocking the ball down.
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@antipodean said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
The culture at the Crusaders must be superb. Average players content to work on their basic skills and do their core roles.
Chiefs have been very unlucky, but losses are a cancer. They're not well served by All Blacks playing like headless 🐔. Webber and DMac should be watching the North vs South on tv.
Just not sure they are average. Winners is a better description.
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones when have I steered you wrong?
In this thread!
@No-Quarter yeah I posted up the law. Refs ruling it like forward pass when it's different.
Sorry I missed that. Yup amateur hour.
Crusaders too good in the end, but that kind of decision is similar to what drives people crazy when it happens to their team against the ABs. You just can't afford really basic mistakes like that going against you if you want to have a chance, especially when it directly leads to a try.
Also brings into question the supposed intentional knock on by Stevenson. His hand was facing backwards...
No downwards fair call Yc
Any chance you can explain where to find the law about downwards?
palm facing the ground on contact In front of your
body is a knock down not back wards
If he had attempted to knock it upwards to retain
The ball fair enough but he didn’t
So he knocked it downwards so penalty
I suppose it cost the chiefs the game well
no it didn’t
So who caresIgnoring that he attempted to catch and not knock it down - I see you unskilfully avoided answering the question. Show me the law where it's a penalty for knocking the ball down.
Crusaders 32 Chiefs 19
5 tries to 1
Thanks for coming -
Nothing can tell the story of the game more appropriately than 5 tries to 1.
Everything that the Chiefs have achieved in this cruel season has been due to pride and team spirit rather than "imported" coaching.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Surprising how many time Jordan beats a tackler when he doesn’t appear to be doing that much to beat him
As I said to Master Pakman, it’s as if he greased his legs the way players slip off him!
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@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones when have I steered you wrong?
In this thread!
@No-Quarter yeah I posted up the law. Refs ruling it like forward pass when it's different.
Sorry I missed that. Yup amateur hour.
Crusaders too good in the end, but that kind of decision is similar to what drives people crazy when it happens to their team against the ABs. You just can't afford really basic mistakes like that going against you if you want to have a chance, especially when it directly leads to a try.
Also brings into question the supposed intentional knock on by Stevenson. His hand was facing backwards...
No downwards fair call Yc
Any chance you can explain where to find the law about downwards?
palm facing the ground on contact In front of your
body is a knock down not back wards
If he had attempted to knock it upwards to retain
The ball fair enough but he didn’t
So he knocked it downwards so penalty
I suppose it cost the chiefs the game well
no it didn’t
So who caresIgnoring that he attempted to catch and not knock it down - I see you unskilfully avoided answering the question. Show me the law where it's a penalty for knocking the ball down.
Crusaders 32 Chiefs 19
5 tries to 1
Thanks for comingHaha I figured you were talking out your arse.
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@antipodean if only he'd dived in front of it.
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@Tim said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Ta'avao not off to a great start.
Cue Chief scrum disintegration. Not yet fit?
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@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@mariner4life same laws of physics apply
Does it though? What's the law for a knock on...I don't recall it being the same wording as a forward pass.
The law says that if a player knocks it forward he has to catch it again before it hits the ground to avoid a knock on. Kicking it or slapping it back is not a valid way of stopping it being a knock on. And in this case even after he tried to slap it back, the ball still travelled forwards.
The refs absolutely bottled a pretty simple decision.
FFS!!! FFS!!! The law is that if a player loses control of ball and it hits ground forward of point he lost control it's a knock on. END OF. That ball travelled two metres forward after Strange's 'knock back'. There's a handy lineout marking which shows that clearly.
If we have TMOs they need to know the Laws (is that TOO much to ask?) and be prepared to overrule ref on findings of fact -- i.e. that the ball travelled forward.
As for Ben O'Keefe that's two incorrect game changing decisions in three weeks.
NZ Ref Body should show him a yellow, and he ought to sit out the next round.
Saders ought to buy him a watch for his contribution to their SRA crown..
.
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@pakman I wouldn't go that far and I think the chiefs were lucky to even be in the game, but it's worrying that kiwi refs have had some absolute clangers that don't at all fit with the laws... and even worse typically when on review! It's like they get confused and focus in on one small thing and disregard the bigger picture.
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman I wouldn't go that far and I think the chiefs were lucky to even be in the game, but it's worrying that kiwi refs have had some absolute clangers that don't at all fit with the laws... and even worse typically when on review! It's like they get confused and focus in on one small thing and disregard the bigger picture.
OK, laying it on a bit thick with watch!
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman I wouldn't go that far and I think the chiefs were lucky to even be in the game, but it's worrying that kiwi refs have had some absolute clangers that don't at all fit with the laws... and even worse typically when on review! It's like they get confused and focus in on one small thing and disregard the bigger picture.
Agree that Chiefs were on the ropes, but one point game and good clearance from scrum and game on!
Felt Chch had the better of that otherwise, so can’t say the result was an injustice.
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
good clearance from scrum
You were going so well
Yes, it wasn’t the given one might expect at this level. Cruds and Weber seemed to be on different frequencies at times.
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One point from my perspective.
Mounga and Jordan the most dangerous players on the park, looking like top level players.
While our starting all black wingers just look average.
And for all our talk of midfield depth, the guys most likely to start the first test aren't showing much.
Okay 2 points.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Jordan the most dangerous players on the park, looking like top level players.
Such an enigma. Like others have said, he just looks like he's going for a brisk walk with little to no purpose and then beats a kazillion people or emerges from within 8 players having beaten them for a kick. He's the anti Ben Smith who made every jink or break look like he was trying to stop the earth turning.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
One point from my perspective.
Mounga and Jordan the most dangerous players on the park, looking like top level players.
While our starting all black wingers just look average.
And for all our talk of midfield depth, the guys most likely to start the first test aren't showing much.
Okay 2 points.
I would actually consider Jordan to play right wing
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Holy fuck. @Frank just booboo'd, but what caused the booboo was a @booboo post. My head hurts.
I get in first occasionally
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@Duluth said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Good pace off the back of that scrum from Sowakula
He's been improving from that first round where everyone wanted him banished from the squad
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@Kirwan said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Embarrassing defence there
Edit: not DMac, that was a good effort
Poor bugger. Showed some guts. Just too small.
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thanks to whoever posted the laws before - I learned something today. Based on those laws, clear no try -- it's not the same as a throw forward.
Refereeing has been in the spotlight, and not in a good way. Our referees haven't been great for a while, and it's wider than that generally. We are making the game harder to ref, and giving the refs less support. Not sure what to do, but if I had to invest in one place, referee developmnet would be it!
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@Donsteppa said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Gah Weber you dick
Yep, not sure why Smithy is praising him.
Hawkes?
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@junior said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Someone should start a drinking game for every tine Marshall mentions how quick Bridge is
Expensive supplying the piss
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Who is the female commentator? "Jordan, peeled back by Cane" 😳
Rikki Swannell. Agree with the sentiment about that comment but I reckon she does a reasonable job. Much preferable to Laban.
Edit: forgot to mention she's done quite a bit of the 7s recently.
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@Toddy said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@mariner4life backwards out of the hands. That's what matters
I see @Bones posted the law that refutes that
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@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
Worth re qoting
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@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Is there a reason why Tahuriorangi isn't playing?
Worth asking again.
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@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones when have I steered you wrong?
In this thread!
@No-Quarter yeah I posted up the law. Refs ruling it like forward pass when it's different.
Sorry I missed that. Yup amateur hour.
Crusaders too good in the end, but that kind of decision is similar to what drives people crazy when it happens to their team against the ABs. You just can't afford really basic mistakes like that going against you if you want to have a chance, especially when it directly leads to a try.
Also brings into question the supposed intentional knock on by Stevenson. His hand was facing backwards...
No downwards fair call Yc
Any chance you can explain where to find the law about downwards?
palm facing the ground on contact In front of your
body is a knock down not back wards
If he had attempted to knock it upwards to retain
The ball fair enough but he didn’t
So he knocked it downwards so penalty
I suppose it cost the chiefs the game well
no it didn’t
So who caresDownwards is legal. Forwards is not. (It was a deliberate knock forward- 100% legit YC.)
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@Siam said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Nothing can tell the story of the game more appropriately than 5 tries to 1.
Everything that the Chiefs have achieved in this cruel season has been due to pride and team spirit rather than "imported" coaching.
Apart from the Welsh guy
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@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
Worth re qoting
makes sense , applying the backwards out of the hands would be a can of worms in regards to knock ons
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A couple of things re Reffing decisions.
Absolute blatant howler for the Strange/Reece try. But the big calls for me were kind of split.
Weber should have got a card for the push in the air.
Apply the same logic about knock on/lost forward to the Chief's try and scrutinise that and see if you'd award it.
Stevenson definite YC.
Moaning both ways is appropriate.
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taniwharugbyreplied to kiwiinmelb on 1 Aug 2020, 22:21 last edited by taniwharugby 1 Aug 2020, 22:26
@kiwiinmelb just shows how much of a minefield the rules are.
So many variables, interpretations and ambiguity, sometimes at odds with logic or common sense.
For me, the one last night was a common sense call when you use physics and shit, which turns out was against the rules.
I reckon if that was pre-tmo days, ruled a knock on every single time...so that probably says something too.
Obviously that's just my 'portant 'pinion.
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@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A couple of things re Reffing decisions.
Absolute blatant howler for the Strange/Reece try. But the big calls for me were kind of split.
Weber should have got a card for the push in the air.
Apply the same logic about knock on/lost forward to the Chief's try and scrutinise that and see if you'd award it.
Stevenson definite YC.
Moaning both ways is appropriate.
Agreed about Weber foul. However, Chiefs try I thought ALB knocked forward but before ball touched anything patted it back and it landed BEHIND him, which I believe isn’t a knock on.
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@pakman said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A couple of things re Reffing decisions.
Absolute blatant howler for the Strange/Reece try. But the big calls for me were kind of split.
Weber should have got a card for the push in the air.
Apply the same logic about knock on/lost forward to the Chief's try and scrutinise that and see if you'd award it.
Stevenson definite YC.
Moaning both ways is appropriate.
Agreed about Weber foul. However, Chiefs try I thought ALB knocked forward but before ball touched anything patted it back and it landed BEHIND him, which I believe isn’t a knock on.
There was an angle where I thought there was a suggestion the ball clipped Goodhue's(?) leg before it was patted back. Nobody mentioned it at the time so maybe I was imagining things?
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@pakman said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@mariner4life same laws of physics apply
Does it though? What's the law for a knock on...I don't recall it being the same wording as a forward pass.
The law says that if a player knocks it forward he has to catch it again before it hits the ground to avoid a knock on. Kicking it or slapping it back is not a valid way of stopping it being a knock on. And in this case even after he tried to slap it back, the ball still travelled forwards.
The refs absolutely bottled a pretty simple decision.
FFS!!! FFS!!! The law is that if a player loses control of ball and it hits ground forward of point he lost control it's a knock on. END OF. That ball travelled two metres forward after Strange's 'knock back'. There's a handy lineout marking which shows that clearly.
If we have TMOs they need to know the Laws (is that TOO much to ask?) and be prepared to overrule ref on findings of fact -- i.e. that the ball travelled forward.
As for Ben O'Keefe that's two incorrect game changing decisions in three weeks.
NZ Ref Body should show him a yellow, and he ought to sit out the next round.
Saders ought to buy him a watch for his contribution to their SRA crown..
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Not so sure with your logic:
Strange juggled the ball, but last action was to push it back with his hands. Due to momentum the ball may have travelled forward slightly but ended up well behind him.
The problem I have with your logic is that if someone was to push the ball backwards in the same position but it travelled or rolled 10 metres back then you would be saying it was not a knock on.
So I think that with the way they rule re momentum and hands directing the ball backwards then this call was correct and consistent with laws as currently applied. Great reffing and use of review system because it looked like a knock on but technology and application of laws meant it wasn’t.
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