Chiefs v Crusaders
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@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Is there a reason why Tahuriorangi isn't playing?
Worth asking again.
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@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Chris said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones when have I steered you wrong?
In this thread!
@No-Quarter yeah I posted up the law. Refs ruling it like forward pass when it's different.
Sorry I missed that. Yup amateur hour.
Crusaders too good in the end, but that kind of decision is similar to what drives people crazy when it happens to their team against the ABs. You just can't afford really basic mistakes like that going against you if you want to have a chance, especially when it directly leads to a try.
Also brings into question the supposed intentional knock on by Stevenson. His hand was facing backwards...
No downwards fair call Yc
Any chance you can explain where to find the law about downwards?
palm facing the ground on contact In front of your
body is a knock down not back wards
If he had attempted to knock it upwards to retain
The ball fair enough but he didn’t
So he knocked it downwards so penalty
I suppose it cost the chiefs the game well
no it didn’t
So who caresDownwards is legal. Forwards is not. (It was a deliberate knock forward- 100% legit YC.)
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@Siam said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
Nothing can tell the story of the game more appropriately than 5 tries to 1.
Everything that the Chiefs have achieved in this cruel season has been due to pride and team spirit rather than "imported" coaching.
Apart from the Welsh guy
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@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.Worth re qoting
makes sense , applying the backwards out of the hands would be a can of worms in regards to knock ons
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A couple of things re Reffing decisions.
Absolute blatant howler for the Strange/Reece try. But the big calls for me were kind of split.
Weber should have got a card for the push in the air.
Apply the same logic about knock on/lost forward to the Chief's try and scrutinise that and see if you'd award it.
Stevenson definite YC.
Moaning both ways is appropriate.
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@kiwiinmelb just shows how much of a minefield the rules are.
So many variables, interpretations and ambiguity, sometimes at odds with logic or common sense.
For me, the one last night was a common sense call when you use physics and shit, which turns out was against the rules.
I reckon if that was pre-tmo days, ruled a knock on every single time...so that probably says something too.
Obviously that's just my 'portant 'pinion.
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@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A couple of things re Reffing decisions.
Absolute blatant howler for the Strange/Reece try. But the big calls for me were kind of split.
Weber should have got a card for the push in the air.
Apply the same logic about knock on/lost forward to the Chief's try and scrutinise that and see if you'd award it.
Stevenson definite YC.
Moaning both ways is appropriate.
Agreed about Weber foul. However, Chiefs try I thought ALB knocked forward but before ball touched anything patted it back and it landed BEHIND him, which I believe isn’t a knock on.
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@pakman said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A couple of things re Reffing decisions.
Absolute blatant howler for the Strange/Reece try. But the big calls for me were kind of split.
Weber should have got a card for the push in the air.
Apply the same logic about knock on/lost forward to the Chief's try and scrutinise that and see if you'd award it.
Stevenson definite YC.
Moaning both ways is appropriate.
Agreed about Weber foul. However, Chiefs try I thought ALB knocked forward but before ball touched anything patted it back and it landed BEHIND him, which I believe isn’t a knock on.
There was an angle where I thought there was a suggestion the ball clipped Goodhue's(?) leg before it was patted back. Nobody mentioned it at the time so maybe I was imagining things?
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@pakman said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@mariner4life same laws of physics apply
Does it though? What's the law for a knock on...I don't recall it being the same wording as a forward pass.
The law says that if a player knocks it forward he has to catch it again before it hits the ground to avoid a knock on. Kicking it or slapping it back is not a valid way of stopping it being a knock on. And in this case even after he tried to slap it back, the ball still travelled forwards.
The refs absolutely bottled a pretty simple decision.
FFS!!! FFS!!! The law is that if a player loses control of ball and it hits ground forward of point he lost control it's a knock on. END OF. That ball travelled two metres forward after Strange's 'knock back'. There's a handy lineout marking which shows that clearly.
If we have TMOs they need to know the Laws (is that TOO much to ask?) and be prepared to overrule ref on findings of fact -- i.e. that the ball travelled forward.
As for Ben O'Keefe that's two incorrect game changing decisions in three weeks.
NZ Ref Body should show him a yellow, and he ought to sit out the next round.
Saders ought to buy him a watch for his contribution to their SRA crown..
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Not so sure with your logic:
Strange juggled the ball, but last action was to push it back with his hands. Due to momentum the ball may have travelled forward slightly but ended up well behind him.
The problem I have with your logic is that if someone was to push the ball backwards in the same position but it travelled or rolled 10 metres back then you would be saying it was not a knock on.
So I think that with the way they rule re momentum and hands directing the ball backwards then this call was correct and consistent with laws as currently applied. Great reffing and use of review system because it looked like a knock on but technology and application of laws meant it wasn’t.
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@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.Worth re qoting
Where is that from? The official laws just says this:
A knock-on may occur anywhere in the playing area.
It is a knock-on when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum (if the ball goes into touch, the non-offending team may opt instead for a quick-throw or lineout).
A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.
The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:-A player knocks the ball forward immediately after an opponent has kicked it (charge down).
-A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.
A throw forward may occur anywhere in the playing area. Sanction: Scrum.
Page 60
A player must not intentionally throw or pass the ball forward. Sanction: Penalty. -
@Machpants said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@booboo said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Bones said in Chiefs v Crusaders:
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.Worth re qoting
Where is that from? The official laws just says this:
A knock-on may occur anywhere in the playing area.
It is a knock-on when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum (if the ball goes into touch, the non-offending team may opt instead for a quick-throw or lineout).
A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
It is not an intentional knock-on if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.
The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:-A player knocks the ball forward immediately after an opponent has kicked it (charge down).
-A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.
A throw forward may occur anywhere in the playing area. Sanction: Scrum.
Page 60
A player must not intentionally throw or pass the ball forward. Sanction: Penalty.In the definitions section of that PDF (page 19)
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@Anonymous Thanks!
Sam Cane silences the critics with statement performance over Crusaders upstart back row
Chiefs and All Blacks captain Sam Cane has come under fire in 2020 for his failure to stamp his mark in Super Rugby Aotearoa when other loose forwards have been standout performers.
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The thing about the no 'knock on' call last night is that four officials were involved in making the call. Either there is a directive re knock ons that we do not know about or, more disturbingly, nobody felt as though they could speak up and disagree with the ref. If I was the ref I would be feeling let down by my assistants. He definitely asked if everyone agreed and nobody said otherwise
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@Machpants Lisa Fucking Lewis. She must be bored or maybe her publicity is down. She didn't even make it to the touch line before she got tackled.
