AB Depth Chart 2020
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@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
tall lifters are as important as tall jumpers
also, having 4 good options creates huge doubt in a defending lineout.
Matfield, Botha, Burger, Juan Smith - very rarely lost LO ball and stole plenty.
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@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I have nothing against Tomkinson but I can't imagine he is the best non capped 2nd Five in the country ! Faiane, Nankivell or Walden are better options IMO.
Pretty hard to point out anything the latter two have done in SRA.
My opinion is based from what I have seen earlier this year. Tomkinson has played in one game of SRA so far but more in SR.
Oh it's an opinion I 100% agree with....but I just thought you were commenting on the SRA form selection post which is the only place I've seen anyone say Tomkinson is the best 12.
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@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
What he said and also the fact that the guy we had playing at 6 wasn't even actually a 6.
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@Bovidae said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@nzzp said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@cgrant depth really improving, but we are missing that tall timber at 6 as a lineout option. Robinson possibly the best candidate in the lineout, but not sure the others are that good are they?
Fark Kaino left a hole
We've never really used the 6 as a lineout option in a while. When Kaino played he was the 4th option after the locks and Read. What you do need is either the 6 or 8 to be a genuine target, as Read showed. In fact, he was often used more than BBBR.
A taller 6 can help as a lifter though. But picking a tall 6 to strengthen the lineout and then not using them is just as dumb. Eh Steve.
But the point is they still had 4 viable options, even if they didn't use the 4th option that frequently. (Having said that, Kaino did win arguably the most important line out in NZ Rugby history in the RWC 2011 final!)
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@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bovidae Jerry was rarely used as well when he played for the ABs at least. Have to go back to Gibbes and Thorne as more frequently used LO options at blindside.
Interesting - my memory is shitty enough to not challenge you on this, but I always had Jerry down as a very good and well-utilised LO option. Maybe I'm coloured by his efforts there in yellow?
My memory is that they used Rodney far more and I think it was for the reason they use Ardie a lot these days - no one expects it to be thrown to him. That's basically admitting that the guys who should be jumping aren't good enough to do it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
tall lifters are as important as tall jumpers
also, having 4 good options creates huge doubt in a defending lineout.
Matfield, Botha, Burger, Juan Smith - very rarely lost LO ball and stole plenty.
Wet dream lineout
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@mariner4life throw in the midget Pierre Spies (6’4) at number 8...
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Be interested to see the stats on that Bok line out. I know the options look great, but my memory is all about a no-fuss quick throw to 2 or 4, bugger all trickery or movement..
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@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
What he said and also the fact that the guy we had playing at 6 wasn't even actually a 6.
6 is the new 13
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@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Be interested to see the stats on that Bok line out. I know the options look great, but my memory is all about a no-fuss quick throw to 2 or 4, bugger all trickery or movement..
The simpler the better.
When our lineout was it's best we threw a heap of 2-ball because Smith's pass was good enough to still make it good attacking ball.
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@ACT-Crusader although wasnt that in the period where we didnt contest it either?
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@taniwharugby said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader although wasnt that in the period where we didnt contest it either?
There was a period where almost every lineout was uncontested, no one bothered
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@Machpants SA still contested our ball though, but we just gave them a free pass with thiers.
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6 and 8, for which the cupboard looked bare a few months ago, are now filled with many young talents. There is more concern for the halfback position where no promising youngster has emerged for a few years now. Fakatava is nowhere to be seen while Enari takes more time than expected to hatch. Let's hope Smith and Perenara keep on playing well till the next RWC.
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ACT Crusaderreplied to taniwharugby on 28 Jun 2020, 11:43 last edited by ACT Crusader 28 Jun 2020, 11:45
@taniwharugby said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader although wasnt that in the period where we didnt contest it either?
We used Jack and Ali to contest opposition throws.
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@Crazy-Horse Parkinson and Dickson are both 2m+.
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@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@kiwiinmelb pffft...Sopoaga killed it for the ABs. Mounga has a way to go to be superior. Him in form is pretty much what @Crucial described.
But went to Wasps and was absolutely terrible. NZR let Sops go at the right time perhaps?
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@Tim said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Hooker
A big issue for Foster's team. NZ really only has one international quality hooker, Codie Taylor, and he has probably been over played over the past two seasons, and isn't dominant at test level. Coles has okay as backup, but has been below desired quality for the past two years, and has discipline problems. Showed some signs of life on Sunday, but much of his game was of lesser quality to Parsons. Time to drop him.
Contenders:
First thing to note is that all the next level of hookers (Parsons isn't in contention for the ABs) have problems with their throwing. This can be exacerbated by lack of lineout targets (Chiefs, Hurricanes).
Taukei'aho - has a very good mix of power in the loose and tight roles, and a good work rate. Throwing needs a lot of work.
Aumua - dynamic player with good speed, brutal ball carrier, can put in some big hits on defence. Has improved his work rate. Skills will continue to develop. Poor lineout thrower.
Coltman - excellent "jackler", poor thrower, rest of game not international standard.
Makalio - big guy, pretty powerful, decent thrower. Different type of player than the ABs have used in the past, possible stopgap.
Hooker is arguably the problem position for Foster's ABs. Coles in his last year or 18 months from retirement. Taylor might no be around for next RWC. It's a step down to Coltman and Aumua who have reliability issues then a step down again to any other options.
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@sparky said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@kiwiinmelb pffft...Sopoaga killed it for the ABs. Mounga has a way to go to be superior. Him in form is pretty much what @Crucial described.
But went Wasps and was absolutely terrible. NZR let Sops go at the right time perhaps?
Yeah EP form is definitely indicative of how a player's form would be in/for NZ.
We all know Heinz and Flutey are the ones that got away. Gopperth would've overtaken Carter.
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@Bones Would have liked that lad who played for King Country in the early 90s, Martin Johnson, to have hung around after making the NZ Colts. Went well against John Eales in 1990 Colts games. Might have helped ABs lineout woes in late 1990s/early 2000s
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@Duluth said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Tim said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Contenders:
Dunshea, Strange, Walker-Leawere.
I would add Josh Dickson to that list. He's looks like a better prospect than Dunshea and Strange
I liked the look of him last season, but Walker-Leawere has not really done much this year. Another talent the Hurricanes coaches are not really bringing on.
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@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@pakman said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Faiane is a thinking 12, with some great skills.
Lee Stensness is back baby!
Faiane's defence is much better than $20 Stensness'.
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@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
6 and 8, for which the cupboard looked bare a few months ago, are now filled with many young talents. There is more concern for the halfback position where no promising youngster has emerged for a few years now. Fakatava is nowhere to be seen while Enari takes more time than expected to hatch. Let's hope Smith and Perenara keep on playing well till the next RWC.
If only Willi Heinz had stayed in NZ.
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Ash Dixon is "only" 31. No reason he can't play for another 3 years in his position, especially if their are no standout up and coming candidates.
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@mofitzy_ said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Ash Dixon is "only" 31. No reason he can't play for another 3 years in his position, especially if their are no standout up and coming candidates.
Ash Dixon going well this year. Very solid player. He'd bring experience, reliability and leadership to the national team too. But he's never going to be a world-beater.
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@mofitzy_ said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I wonder if any players will be returning for next season e.g. Hemopo. Only 26 years old and an underrated 6/lock option.
How long is Jackson Hemopo tied into his Japan contract? He'd be a great signing for the Hurricanes.
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@mofitzy_ said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@sparky
Agreed, but as a stopgap he's reliable.A lot to said for Reliable, especially in the toughest position on the park.
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@sparky said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mofitzy_ said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Ash Dixon is "only" 31. No reason he can't play for another 3 years in his position, especially if their are no standout up and coming candidates.
Ash Dixon going well this year. Very solid player. He'd bring experience, reliability and leadership to the national team too. But he's never going to be a world-beater.
He doesn't need to be a world beater - he needs to play a role, the main features of which are (a) hitting his line out targets and (b) holding his own in the scrum so our No. 8 and backs have quick clean ball to play with.
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Dixon has likely missed his chance now but I think he deserved an opportunity ahead of Parsons. Then again, Coltman may struggle if he stays on the bench and plays limited minutes.
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@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@sparky said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mofitzy_ said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Ash Dixon is "only" 31. No reason he can't play for another 3 years in his position, especially if their are no standout up and coming candidates.
Ash Dixon going well this year. Very solid player. He'd bring experience, reliability and leadership to the national team too. But he's never going to be a world-beater.
He doesn't need to be a world beater - he needs to play a role, the main features of which are (a) hitting his line out targets and (b) holding his own in the scrum so our No. 8 and backs have quick clean ball to play with.
Unless the patterns change, over the past few years we have used Coles and Taylor to great effect out wide. Both are pretty skilled with their hands and like to run with the ball. Dixon will have to show at least something in that regard.
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@ACT-Crusader actually you reminded me - thought Laulala looked very good ball in hand in the weekend, I don't recall him being that dynamic before.
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I liked what I saw from Slater against the Crusaders last Sunday. His throwing was rather good (with one notable exception), he has a good workrate and he looks big for a hooker. At just 21, he is one to watch closely.
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@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I liked what I saw from Slater against the Crusaders last Sunday. His throwing was rather good (with one notable exception), he has a good workrate and he looks big for a hooker. At just 21, he is one to watch closely.
If there is an AB EOYT it might be worth taking Slater as their apprentice.
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@cgrant said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I liked what I saw from Slater against the Crusaders last Sunday. His throwing was rather good (with one notable exception), he has a good workrate and he looks big for a hooker. At just 21, he is one to watch closely.
Trust me, that is the best I have ever seen Slater throw, going back to 1st XV rugby where he was also very inaccurate. He was worse than Taukei'aho in SR.
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I am starting to wish that DMac was steered toward number nine and up skilled with his pass.
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@Crucial said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I am starting to wish that DMac was steered toward number nine and up skilled with his pass.
Having a 9 that can properly cover 15, 10 and wing in that order would be invaluable.
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As long as DMac passed like Smith and not TJP and Weber.
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@Crucial said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
I am starting to wish that DMac was steered toward number nine and up skilled with his pass.
If he was British or a Saffa that would have happened, I suspect.
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