'Super Rugby' 2021
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As long as the JRFU gets on board. Their lack of support for the Sunwolves wouldn't have impressed SANZAAR.
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^ ^ So, a separate Japanese league continues as normal, but they compete in a 'sort of' Pan-Pacific Champions League?
Yes, I'd like that idea.
But, hate the idea of the sunwolves or any other Japanese clubs/franchises in some season long hemisphere hopping league with us.
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I like this idea but I think it works better with ever y country having a domestic only comp ala England france. I also think the nz teams will be too strong and like the idea of 8 team nz league domestic possible trans Ta$man. I think alot of depth could come from pro d2 sides ,maybe japan although money a bigger factor there, and which would help the islands and nz could claim moral high ground.
Domestic only doesnt work with the 5 super teams unless trans Ta$man and mitre 10 depth is spread too thin both players and administrators and coaches as seen with how poor there financials look.
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Could NZ sustain 8 fully pro teams?
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You would have to say no - that is over 300 players.
When expansion of Super Rugby was proposed In 2009/10 to start in 2011, both Taranaki and Hawke's Bay made moves to form a sixth Super Rugby squad and NZR said no, they couldn't afford it.
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@KiwiMurph
Moneywise easily especially if mitre10 cup is canned. Players would take a slight paycut (most of their NPC money) I think one product makes rugby less convuluted, shorter total domestic season (like the NRL) would get more people coming and leave wiggle room for value add stuff, International tours vs clubs mid week etc.
player wise i think yes as well as i mentioned above, i think alot of players would come back from Pro d2 definitley and less so japan england and top 14. There are more pro nzers overseas than in NZ
A lot of good mitre10 players leave for these leagues and would likely relish the chance to play in a premier nz comp. Opening the door for pacific island players would mean they could play closer to home. -
The article above answers some questions we were wondering about (re: broadcasting rights for the SANZAAR countries).
Stuff understands that under the current 2016-2020 Sanzaar arrangements New Zealand, Australia and South Africa get an equal share of the broadcasting pot – one-third– with a set amount set aside for Argentina. This reflects their contributions under the last deal, with the Sky deal worth $US32 million a year (although that includes the Mitre 10 Cup), Fox Sports adding $US24m and SuperSport $U26 million (SARU sells the Currie Cup separately, and the size of that deal has caused friction in the past). The significant uplift in last deal was also helped by more money out of the UK, where a broadcast war between Sky UK and BT Sport saw the former pay about £20m a year – a staggering 620 per cent increase that won't be repeated. However, you can burn that model because the ground has shifted in the past few years, and was doing so even before the coronavirus. Stuff has been told that the massive deal NZ Rugby struck with Sky is worth up to $100m a year (that figure also includes domestic tests that are not part of the Sanzaar deal) while the SuperSport deal was tipped to be flat. That's a huge increase for NZ Rugby, as in 2016 and 2018 (the most recent non-British and Irish Lions tours years) its broadcast revenues were $73m a year. The ailing Sanzaar partner is clearly Australia, where Fox Sports is reportedly in a position to only offer $A15-20m a year for the 2021-2026 rights.
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@muddyriver the problem with canning M10 cup is you then leave large chunks of NZ with absolutely nothing to support.
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/121523112/why-nz-rugby-could-now-rip-up-super-rugby
In fact, a source has told Stuff the new Sky deal announced in Octobermeans NZ Rugby will bring "significantly" more to Sanzaar than the South Africans will via broadcaster SuperSport, in part because of the weak Rand.
It's a game-changing deal – heated up by competition from Spark – that defied broader industry trends and could allow NZ Rugby to radically redraw Super Rugby to make it the more domestic-focused product that supporters are craving.
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@Bones i agree. but cater to everyone and you dont make anyone happy, is that how it goes?
support the prems club (i think a huge growth area in rural NZ), expand the heartland. very tough call...
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@muddyriver said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones i agree. but cater to everyone and you dont make anyone happy, is that how it goes?
support the prems club (i think a huge growth area in rural NZ), expand the heartland. very tough call...
You have to give the smaller provinces something. It's not always about making money. It's about fans being able to get along and support a local team, rather than just have club rugby and that's it.
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
It's about fans being able to get along and support a local team, rather than just have club rugby and that's it.
does that have to be professional?
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
It's about fans being able to get along and support a local team, rather than just have club rugby and that's it.
does that have to be professional?
Nope. Does that mean it doesn't cost anything?
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
It's about fans being able to get along and support a local team, rather than just have club rugby and that's it.
does that have to be professional?
Nope. Does that mean it doesn't cost anything?
no, but that's not where i was going.
Getting representative rugby back to being rep teams might scratch that itch?
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@mariner4life definitely, that'd be perfect eh. So NPC just not semi-pro. That's not getting rid of it!
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life definitely, that'd be perfect eh. So NPC just not semi-pro. That's not getting rid of it!
i sort of like the idea of a 10-team professional comp, and then a rep NPC after club land finishes.
We can't have pro teams everywhere, but i agree that people have pride in their provinces, and that needs to be tapped in to.
EDIT: That should be "a 10-team pro comp; and then also a rep NPC" they would be separate with separate players
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@Winger said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
In fact, a source has told Stuff the new Sky deal announced in Octobermeans NZ Rugby will bring "significantly" more to Sanzaar than the South Africans will via broadcaster SuperSport, in part because of the weak Rand.
It's a game-changing deal – heated up by competition from Spark – that defied broader industry trends and could allow NZ Rugby to radically redraw Super Rugby to make it the more domestic-focused product that supporters are craving.Glad that my prediction/thoughts were correct - doesn't happen often!
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Rumours only at the moment:
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The return of the Central Vikings is imminent!
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@Yeetyaah said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The return of the Central Vikings is imminent!
adidas are out sourcing orange material as we speak
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On the real though, fuck no I don't want more NZ Super teams.
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8 SR teams?
They might as well go to 10 NPC teams and have a single competition. Everyone plays everyone home and away
4 teams to drop to heartland or merge with a larger team
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@Duluth said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
8 SR teams?
They might as well go to 10 NPC teams and have a single competition. Everyone plays everyone home and away
4 teams to drop to heartland or merge with a larger team
Also this would make the Ranfurly Shield important again
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@Duluth said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
8 SR teams?
They might as well go to 10 NPC teams and have a single competition. Everyone plays everyone home and away
4 teams to drop to heartland or merge with a larger team
Bye bye Northland Southland Hawkes Bay and Ta$man
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We don't have the depth for 6 teams at the moment. If fewer players leave for overseas clubs over the next few years, we may have enough for 6 teams, but not now. More than 6 is riduculous.
Oh, and hands off the NPC. No provinces to be dropped to Heartland.
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
We don't have the depth for 6 teams at the moment. If fewer players leave for overseas clubs over the next few years, we may have enough for 6 teams, but not now. More than 6 is riduculous.
Oh, and hands off the NPC.
The NPC is essentially dead (Despite a few "Ultra-fans")
This is the best opportunity to move forward and bury it but be able to keep the Ranfurly Shield in operation.
If we had 8 SR teams and it was only played between NZ teams as it is now, it would be a good comp. Bettter than a pokey 5 team comp as it stands.
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Hooroo It won't generate enough income to replace SR though.
That comparison may no longer be valid
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Hooroo It won't generate enough income to replace SR though.
Absolutely agree but it may be the new way.
I can't see Super Rugby being the same again now that SA is pretty much pulling pin.
At best it may be a ANZ comp
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
We don't have the depth for 6 teams at the moment. If fewer players leave for overseas clubs over the next few years, we may have enough for 6 teams, but not now. More than 6 is riduculous.
Oh, and hands off the NPC. No provinces to be dropped to Heartland.
A counter argument would be that in a trans Ta$man comp - making the NZ teams weaker might make the comp more competitive.
I think the real issue with the 6th NZ team is the $ funding it/making it financially viable.
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Just for fun, if there were 8 teams, what would they be?
Current 5
Plus
Taniwha (Northland/NH plays at Albany)
Bays (Bay/Hawkes plays at Tauranga)
Cowpokes (Taranaki/Manawatu plays at New Plymouth)
If it were only one in an ANZ competition, I imagine that a team based in Labany would be easiest.
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@gt12 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Just for fun, if there were 8 teams, what would they be?
Current 5
Plus
Taniwha (Northland/NH plays at Albany)
Bays (Bay/Hawkes plays at Tauranga)
Cowpokes (Taranaki/Manawatu plays at New Plymouth)
If it were only one in an ANZ competition, I imagine that a team based in Labany would be easiest.
Bays is actually quite a good name. For a tricky divide. Hawkes Bay is the hardest to incorporate.
- North Auckland (revive the historic name)
- Bays (BOP. Poverty Bay, East Coast, Hawkes Bay
- Lower North Island (or LNI) - (Taranaki, Wanganui, Manawatu)
Hurricanes retain Howowhenua and Wairarapa in their franchise catchment.
Chiefs retain Thames Valley and King Country, but loose Counties.Blues, Chiefs, Hurricances, Highlanders, Crusaders - regain their original georgraphical monikers.
Big stuffs to Southlanders and Tasmaners moaning about their names. Southlanders have put up with in cricket for a century ....
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Chiefs retain Thames Valley and King Country, but loose Counties.
Auckland has a large enough player pool to stand on its own so Counties and Waikato should stay together.
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"Southerns" sounds better to me, ive kind of got over the "creative" franchise names to be honest, hence my avatar, a combo of Otago and southland logos
real simple summary of my thoughts, i'd like a more simple comp and so making the existing unions fully profession makes sense to me...
But i understand its not as easy as that and so will accept almost anything as long as there is some logic and inclusion of the smaller unions in it, away jerseys being one of the other unions colours for example
Using the Highlanders as an example, Gold is a common colour between Otago, North otago and Southland so maybe we should have used it more
i follow Otago boy high, Dunedin RFC, Otago, Highlanders and obviously the AB's...when ive had to explain that to people in the UK or Aus and how there is very little connection between those all anymore it makes me realise the system is a bit broke and we should try and align things a bit more
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We don’t have the depth to dilute the current 5 teams and maintain the high performance he talks about in that article. Introducing more teams will be a disaster. Poorer quality in the name of expansion does not make for a more entertaining product. We saw that with the endless expansion of super rugby.
If the saffa’s are gone and a NZ only comp is not an option then an ANZ comp with the quality of teams kept as high as possible is the only option.