'Super Rugby' 2021
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I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan. I love the idea of expanding AB eligibility for any Super side in a "Pacific Rim" competition withe South Africa focused up in Europe.
The Saffers are already one foot in one foot out with some of their provincial teams playing in Europe, given the world is increasingly divided up along TV market lines where time zones matter more than hemispheres I reckon we let them go.
5 NZ teams, 4 Aussie, 4 Japanese, 2 Argie, 1 Pacific Island (home games in Auckland/Sydney, but preseason matches in the Islands) = 16 teams. 16 week round robin (everyone gets a bye week), straight top 4 SF then final, all done in 18 weeks. Travel tough but doable given no SA involvement. Scope to include US/Canada teams further down the track.
None of this home/away rubbish that bloats the schedule, to then try and pare it back with a conference system. The 6 Nations alternates home and away every year and the luck of the draw plays a big part and people live with that. We can too.
Key to making it work is integrating with the Japanese club system. Tough but should be possible, they should be massively keen to grow the game after the world cup there and the great strides the national team has made.
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
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@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
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Genuine question - why would this competition automatically include Australia as a partner?
If they cannot bring a big dollar TV contract or 2000-era level crowds I am not sure why we would want to be tethered to the hip with them and enter into a formal partnership with them and be exposed to their infighting. If Wales exited the Pro 14 the answer wouldn't be adding a bunch more Italian teams and a strategic alignment between Italy and Ireland.
I am not against having Australian teams in an expanded competition but they enter on the basis to the Warriors in the NRL, Breakers in the NBL or proposed NZ Big Bash teams.
Japan is a different story as they can bring $$$ (in-lieu of a yen sign on my keyboard).
If the Boks go from SAANZAR then it is probably in our best interests to peruse a wholly independent model of setting test fixtures and to a large extent auction them off to the highest bidder rather than play a goofy 3N with an ailing Australia and Argentina with 50% YoY inflation.
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@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
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I don't think there's any point in discussing the Jaguares not being involved in any future SR comp. It's just not realistic.
I DO think there's a lot of merit in Rapido's call re jerseys though. SA not being involved gets rid of several of the abominations for a start including camo, superhero cos-play and whatever the fuck that yellow thing was the Bulls changed into at HT in the infamous jersey clash game this year. Then I'd make a rule that adidas couldn't distort playing strips for the sake of marketing gimmickery like they did this year, but they can make training strips as outlandish as they like.
Teams would have a home strip, and an away strip in inverted colours or a different colour scheme using other provincial sides' colours in the franchise boundaries. That goes for ALL teams. I'd ban shit like tartan, volcanos and chain mail from the regular NZ jerseys, but each team could have the equivalent of an NBA-style 'City Edition' jersey which may not be in franchise colours but would still be representative of the region. This would only be worn once or twice a season, and would need to be entirely distinctive from other sides' jerseys.
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
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@Machpants The SR viewership numbers for SuperSport will be greater than that of Sky and Fox Sports so I believe they still have the biggest slice of the broadcasting pie within SANZAAR.
It is hard to find any current information. This link might have some info but you need to subscribe.
SuperSport close to Sanzaar, Saru rugby renewals in South Africa
South African pay-television broadcaster Supersport is finalising deals to renew its rights for Sanzaar and South African Rugby Union properties for the 2021-25 cycle, SportBusiness Media understands.
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@Bovidae @Machpants I vaguely recall seeing somethign a couple of years back that indicated the SA numbers were not as big as oft stated, but were still the biggest of the 3. NZ numbers were higher than many thought they'd be IIRC
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
NZ Rugby becomes Sky TV shareholder in new 'revolutionary' five-year broadcast deal | Newshub
The national rugby body will take a 5 percent ownership in the broadcaster.
Unconfirmed estimate of $400 million over 5 years - seems enough to make it worthwhile setting something up sooner rather than later, and if that's a Australasian competition to start with, so be it.
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@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
I don't see why not. Their confirmed case rate is 0.01% of their population, compared to New Zealand's 0.03%
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
They're in the same time zone and bring money.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
I don't see why not. Their confirmed case rate is 0.01% of their population, compared to New Zealand's 0.03%
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
They're in the same time zone and bring money.
A fuck of a lot better than Arg, and out of this world when you compare to pie-in-the-sky idea of a PI team. Unless The Rock is goin to come with his millions, no way in the world can any of the other unions afford to subsidise a PI team
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This from the article below gives some numbers but not specific to SA.
New Zealand Rugby finalised its own five year deal with Sky in June after signing a conditional agreement in October 2014, which also covers the All Blacks inbound June test series and the national provincial championship.
Details of the deal have not been made public, but the way it works is the Sanzar partners get a pre-agreed share of the income they collectively receive for Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship with NZ Rugby pocketing the money attributed to its provincial competition and the inbound June test series.
It is understood the new deal, which runs from 2016 to 2020, represents an increase on the previous contract which ran through to the end of this year's World Cup.
That deal was reportedly worth $615 million, a 35 per cent increase on the preceding deal.
[link text](link url)https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/75201467/super-rugby-tv-rights-australia-deal-worth-293-million
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
SA has a population of 59m. Straight away that's an imposing number vs our 5m and Australia's 25m; give or take, it's double the combined tally.
Even if you impose some racial stereotyping and consider the 'keen on rugby' population is the white portion, that's still 5.9m or there-abouts (9-10% of the population, depending on the source). But then add in a quantity of the coloured and black populations and you might get to a third of the population. That's a large potential TV viewership compared to rugby-mad NZ and the AFL/NRL/A League but far from rugby union mad Australian populace.
Don't try and tell me in any seriousness whatsover that losing SA doesn't create a massive money vacuum in SH TV rights. And don't try to bring the value of the rand into it because there's no way the deal would be done in the rand
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@shark I am not doubting there will be a loss in revenue, but there is no proof it will be a giant's portion of it. We just don't know and are re-hashing what used to be the case. Looking at the cost of air travel to/from SA, in the current climate, that is going to make a massive -prohibitive?- difference. Argentina is right out. I've said before a lot of the value is selling to international, non SANZAAR, nations - and there the NZ teams are a big draw. Everyone I know in the UK as rugby fans knows and likes watching SR - and normally the NZ teams esp the derbies.
