Worst All Black RWC exits
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@kiwiinmelb said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
but 2019 I was more angry, it pissed me off the most , we were putrid , no excuses , wasnt a choke , their form leading in was up and down,
England turned up with a plan to beat us , and we looked clueless , and the worst part - soft
All the more frustrating because they probably had bigger swings of luck in their favour than for any other ABs knockout game since 1987 with the disallowed try in the 1st half and the botched line out leading to the Savea try.
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@sdrggyy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The 2019 result was different to almost every other world cup exit because we weren't even the form team going into the tournament.
1991 we weren't in form and it would have been a surprise if we had won.
1995 We weren't the form team going into the tournament but it turned out we were far and away the best team in the world. So that one rankles
1999 An average WC with no stand out sides. People forget the abject misery of 98 too soon. Definitely a choke but Oz dominated us for the next couple of years so overall a fair result
2003 We had form early in the season until everyone worked out how to combat our 'magnificent" game plan. England were far and away the best team in the world and deserved the victory. You can't talk crap AB coaches and not have Mitchell on the top of the podium.
2007 Best team in world. Certainly in our own minds. Hubris is a bitch. Oh how I laughed after the OZ QF.....
2019 Rinse repeat 1999 I don't think anyone was confident we would beat SA in the opener. After we stomped all over Ireland we (the fans) got cocky. I don't think Hansen did. We had struggled against England in our last meetings. Hence Hansen tried something different. Didn't work. Partly poor selections, partly poor performances. Different day - different result.For me 1995 is our worst exit as we were so clearly miles ahead of everyone else. We played with panache and good grace. 2007 runs it close except it was only a QF and we certainly didn't display good grace in that tournament. Before during our after the match. Loss was massively instrumental in the next two victories though.
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@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
1995 We weren't the form team going into the tournament but it turned out we were far and away the best team in the world. So that one rankles
The ABs were the best team at the RWC but they weren't unbeatable. They lost the 1st test to France later in the year.
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@Catogrande said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@MN5 said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Bones said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@Catogrande said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
I recall Kronfeld, I think, winking at the tv camera
You sure he wasn't just saying hello to Marty Leslie?
Brilliant. I remember when he was suspended in 2003 and the whole Scots team twitched one by one as the camera panned over each of them during the anthem.
What a tribute
Hence my 4 years too early quote.
Well no, Leslie debuted for Scotland in the glorious five nations victory of 99 plus their paths woulda crossed during the NPC on numerous occasions.
I'm sure Kronfeld knew of his quirks way before 2003.
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@MN5 And outside of his family, a few team mates and a reasonable portion of. NZ no one knew fuck all until the sweaties did their thing (which I really liked btw) was my point. Having said that I concede that one way or another it likely applies to around 95% of the guys on here, so I will comfort myself with being correct but in the minority.
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@Snowy said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@sdrggyy Wayne Barnes ruined my faith in rugby that day I was fuming sitting in the stands. I also believe that he was there to make sure that we lost. An entire game of rugby and one side only gets penalised twice? France of all teams too? Beggars belief. I think that I have been to two internationals since and not one world cup match because of it.
Once upon a time I would have been embarrassed for you ... always play the ref etc.
Until Lions tour 2017. Then I became you.
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@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
IMO caused by a drop in overall talent levels. And the fact that we had it too easy for too long. A lot of players didn't know anything about a tough time. There was no heartbreaker to focus the energy. There was no overwhelming public vitriol to combat. A decade to a decade and a half of unheard of success, where every dent was smoothed out a week later in emphatic fashion. You can't build mental resilience by winning all the time.
Richie, Dan, Woody, Kev, Nonu, even Conrad Smith, those guys knew what it meant to lose. And that drove them.
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
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The problem was that everything was forgiven so quickly and easily.
Hanson should have gone after the Lions to show that losses and stupid selection decisions still have repercussions.
Personally, I think if they had stuck with their policy of selecting the tried and true, we might have beaten England - it's criminal that we didn't have Same Cane and Ben Smith out there.
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@gt12 Agree about cane but many were doubting if BFA would even make the squad.
Lions loss. Can't remember. My recollection is we were massively the better team in 1st Test. SBW had a brain fart early in the second but we still hung in there until a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test. 3rd Test was tight but we still should have pipped it except for the referring trio deciding technical decisions don't matter any more.
Seriously after Test 1 it looked like being 2005 all over again. Can't remember any selection shocks Savea was dropped for Rieko but that was form. Disappointing for sure - very bitter series draw but Hansens fault - not IMO
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@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
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@canefan Hansen got caught between two stools with 2019 I think. Senior players fell apart (BFA, Read) and the talent hadn't come through quite yet. Exacerbated by injuries to game changers like Rieko, BBBR, and it was a frustrating time.
He has to take responsibility for not settling on a midfield for ages, though, and then knee jerking after Perth.
...and now I'm annoyed again,
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@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
Long lineout throw I thought. Same principle as the lions penalty.
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@Siam said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@nzzp said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@dogmeat said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
a very technical (correct) referring decision in the last moments of the test.
If that's correct (can't be tackled jumping for a pass), why aren't we using that as a goal line tactic? Easy penalties or tries right?
I think Trask did that at the weekend - and he was jumping for a bouncing kick ( but no penalty)
Long lineout throw I thought. Same principle as the lions penalty.
How do you say "We was fucked over" in French?
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@antipodean said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
The ones that gave up our record against Ireland? That lost a Lions series? Yes, a draw is a loss.
people barely gave a fuck about either of those things. If they had come in the run of World Cup shockers there would have been calls for public executions.
For this is was "mah, exhibition game in the US" and "wow, the refs were pretty bad aye?" and everyone moved on.
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@mariner4life said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
@rotated said in Worst All Black RWC exits:
The ABs very clearly lost the ability to go into siege mentality in the past cycle there were at least two games which were dubbed must win and the biggest games of the season going into them and they came up with flat performances (3rd Lions test, Dublin 2018). Without that ability to go up a gear they were always vulnerable to someone's best shot.
IMO caused by a drop in overall talent levels. And the fact that we had it too easy for too long. A lot of players didn't know anything about a tough time. There was no heartbreaker to focus the energy. There was no overwhelming public vitriol to combat. A decade to a decade and a half of unheard of success, where every dent was smoothed out a week later in emphatic fashion. You can't build mental resilience by winning all the time.
Richie, Dan, Woody, Kev, Nonu, even Conrad Smith, those guys knew what it meant to lose. And that drove them.
Who in 2019 could say the same thing?
Two related things along those lines from Hansen
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He never drew a line under the 2015 side. He would often back the team against media criticism through the last cycle saying things like "after all this team has achieved" and "after two world cups"... when in truth how many of them carried the water in even one RWC win? Read, Rettalick, Whitelock, Ben Smith - maybe Barrett as a sub? Even just with McCaw, Carter and the centre combo leaving that was a completely different side.
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He never let the team suffer - at least publicly. It was absolutely infuriating to see him lose twice to Ireland with a "gee rugby is the winner on the day" and "let's not take anything away from Ireland" mindset. Maybe things were treated differently in private? But when you hear stories about Athletic Park '93 being the fulcrum of someone like Sean Fitzpatrick's career (in a series they ultimately won) it's bizzare that failing to win only the second Lions' series in history raised nothing more than a shrug.
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Are these All Blacks still scared to lose?
