All Black Coach - Ian Foster
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@junior said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@gt12 said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@Chris-B said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@taniwharugby Thing about the Lions, was that it was a series that we could easily have won 3-0 - but for a couple of moments of indiscipline, plenty of injuries and the weird penalty at the end.
There were plenty of obvious reasons/excuses for the various defeats we suffered over the last couple of years, but it was obvious to everyone that we were going to need some luck or some genius coaching to get across the line at RWC2019 - the team simply wasn't close to as good as the 2015 version.
Agreed, but equally we could just as easily lost that series 2-1 thanks to selection, strategy, replacements, and tactics - all of which the coaching team should wear. I can’t really fault Hansen from 2012-2015 - it’s the best AB team we’ve ever had.
However, the post McCaw/Carter (Nonu/Smith/Kaino) rebuild has just not been that successful - we didn’t get the right people in the right places with enough experience early enough to be really there at the WC - as a result some pieces were able to be pretty easily exploited (I’m thinking Mo’unga’s defense here, for example). Also, apart from Cane, who incredibly wasn’t playing in that semi, none of those positions above were occupied by a dyed-on definite starter by the WC. That’s coaching and selection.
Sorry, in what world do we lose that series 2-1 because of coaching? What did the coaching unit do wrong in the 2nd and 3rd test that really cost us those matches...?
This world. It was word from the coaches to play conservative after the red card. We could have still won T2. Coaches put savea back on, despite being utter shit all season, and he personally bombed a couple of tries that should have been taken in T3. Just off the top of my head examples.
Edit also in the world where the buck stops at the coaches
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@rotated said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@Stargazer said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@rotated I don't think circulation needs to be down for editors to produce clickbait.
True, but clickbait would be "Henry back as Foster's assistant?" not Mooar/Feek etc.
Click bait would be:
'5 All Black assistant coaches you won't believe! Click here to find out!' The article wouldtthen be about all the assistants involved under Hansen. -
@junior said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@gt12 said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@Chris-B said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@taniwharugby Thing about the Lions, was that it was a series that we could easily have won 3-0 - but for a couple of moments of indiscipline, plenty of injuries and the weird penalty at the end.
There were plenty of obvious reasons/excuses for the various defeats we suffered over the last couple of years, but it was obvious to everyone that we were going to need some luck or some genius coaching to get across the line at RWC2019 - the team simply wasn't close to as good as the 2015 version.
Agreed, but equally we could just as easily lost that series 2-1 thanks to selection, strategy, replacements, and tactics - all of which the coaching team should wear. I can’t really fault Hansen from 2012-2015 - it’s the best AB team we’ve ever had.
However, the post McCaw/Carter (Nonu/Smith/Kaino) rebuild has just not been that successful - we didn’t get the right people in the right places with enough experience early enough to be really there at the WC - as a result some pieces were able to be pretty easily exploited (I’m thinking Mo’unga’s defense here, for example). Also, apart from Cane, who incredibly wasn’t playing in that semi, none of those positions above were occupied by a dyed-on definite starter by the WC. That’s coaching and selection.
Sorry, in what world do we lose that series 2-1 because of coaching? What did the coaching unit do wrong in the 2nd and 3rd test that really cost us those matches...?
Taking Aaron Smith off
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I've walked into a meeting of doomsayers and conspiracy theorists. This thread gets weirder with every page.
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@raznomore said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
We had some amazing players retire or move overseas in our back division post-2015. So I would like to think that is the reason our back play is not quite where it should have been over the last 4 years. And not that Foster has had too much imput...
It wasn't the player loss. It was the ambivalence to developing a centre combination and Damascas road conversion on the 10 jersey - that were fundamental calls he got wrong or was late to the party on.
The discussion between him and Hansen re: Reiko for the first Lions test is illuminating also.
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@rotated said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@raznomore said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
We had some amazing players retire or move overseas in our back division post-2015. So I would like to think that is the reason our back play is not quite where it should have been over the last 4 years. And not that Foster has had too much imput...
It wasn't the player loss. It was the ambivalence to developing a centre combination and Damascas road conversion on the 10 jersey - that were fundamental calls he got wrong or was late to the party on.
The discussion between him and Hansen re: Reiko for the first Lions test is illuminating also.
On the 10 jersey thing, it was pretty clear a long time ago that the dual playmaker game was where they wanted to be, that is why there were quite a few tests with Barrett and DMac starting.
That would’ve continued had DMac not got injured.
So to replicate what they started they went with Mo’unga and Barrett. Made pretty simple sense.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@rotated said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@raznomore said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
We had some amazing players retire or move overseas in our back division post-2015. So I would like to think that is the reason our back play is not quite where it should have been over the last 4 years. And not that Foster has had too much imput...
It wasn't the player loss. It was the ambivalence to developing a centre combination and Damascas road conversion on the 10 jersey - that were fundamental calls he got wrong or was late to the party on.
The discussion between him and Hansen re: Reiko for the first Lions test is illuminating also.
On the 10 jersey thing, it was pretty clear a long time ago that the dual playmaker game was where they wanted to be, that is why there were quite a few tests with Barrett and DMac starting.
That would’ve continued had DMac not got injured.
So to replicate what they started they went with Mo’unga and Barrett. Made pretty simple sense.
Agree. And with the centres it didn't help that SBW and Crotty kept getting injured at the wrong time. Given that they kept seeing injuries not was understandable that they wanted to create multiple combos. When Goodhue was available they were very consistent on using him.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
On the 10 jersey thing, it was pretty clear a long time ago that the dual playmaker game was where they wanted to be, that is why there were quite a few tests with Barrett and DMac starting.
The EOYT last year was where they began looking in earnest and it was woeful leaving them an abridged TRC to try and re-calibrate. They either massively overestimated their ability to install the system quickly or it's effectiveness.
@Crucial said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
Agree. And with the centres it didn't help that SBW and Crotty kept getting injured at the wrong time.
And many on the Fern and elsewhere decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze with either of them 2-3 years ago and that establishing a reliable, settled combination was the way to go. Most reached that conclusion after the Lions tour. The slow ones figured it out last season. Fozzie and Hansen probably still haven't figured it out.
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@Machpants said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@junior said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@gt12 said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@Chris-B said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@taniwharugby Thing about the Lions, was that it was a series that we could easily have won 3-0 - but for a couple of moments of indiscipline, plenty of injuries and the weird penalty at the end.
There were plenty of obvious reasons/excuses for the various defeats we suffered over the last couple of years, but it was obvious to everyone that we were going to need some luck or some genius coaching to get across the line at RWC2019 - the team simply wasn't close to as good as the 2015 version.
Agreed, but equally we could just as easily lost that series 2-1 thanks to selection, strategy, replacements, and tactics - all of which the coaching team should wear. I can’t really fault Hansen from 2012-2015 - it’s the best AB team we’ve ever had.
However, the post McCaw/Carter (Nonu/Smith/Kaino) rebuild has just not been that successful - we didn’t get the right people in the right places with enough experience early enough to be really there at the WC - as a result some pieces were able to be pretty easily exploited (I’m thinking Mo’unga’s defense here, for example). Also, apart from Cane, who incredibly wasn’t playing in that semi, none of those positions above were occupied by a dyed-on definite starter by the WC. That’s coaching and selection.
Sorry, in what world do we lose that series 2-1 because of coaching? What did the coaching unit do wrong in the 2nd and 3rd test that really cost us those matches...?
This world. It was word from the coaches to play conservative after the red card. We could have still won T2. Coaches put savea back on, despite being utter shit all season, and he personally bombed a couple of tries that should have been taken in T3. Just off the top of my head examples.
Edit also in the world where the buck stops at the coaches
Yeah nah not buying that sorry - yeah it’s totally the coaches’ fault for going conservative after the red card (no, the problem was not the card at all), rather than Barrett’s inability to kick easy goals that would have put us 2 scores clear...
Test 3, you may have more of a point, but Savea’s droppsies almost become irrelevant once Poite makes the decision he does
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@mariner4life said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@junior said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@gt12 said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@Chris-B said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@taniwharugby Thing about the Lions, was that it was a series that we could easily have won 3-0 - but for a couple of moments of indiscipline, plenty of injuries and the weird penalty at the end.
There were plenty of obvious reasons/excuses for the various defeats we suffered over the last couple of years, but it was obvious to everyone that we were going to need some luck or some genius coaching to get across the line at RWC2019 - the team simply wasn't close to as good as the 2015 version.
Agreed, but equally we could just as easily lost that series 2-1 thanks to selection, strategy, replacements, and tactics - all of which the coaching team should wear. I can’t really fault Hansen from 2012-2015 - it’s the best AB team we’ve ever had.
However, the post McCaw/Carter (Nonu/Smith/Kaino) rebuild has just not been that successful - we didn’t get the right people in the right places with enough experience early enough to be really there at the WC - as a result some pieces were able to be pretty easily exploited (I’m thinking Mo’unga’s defense here, for example). Also, apart from Cane, who incredibly wasn’t playing in that semi, none of those positions above were occupied by a dyed-on definite starter by the WC. That’s coaching and selection.
Sorry, in what world do we lose that series 2-1 because of coaching? What did the coaching unit do wrong in the 2nd and 3rd test that really cost us those matches...?
Taking Aaron Smith off
Well that’s a gripe that applies to almost every test in the last 4 years
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@Godder said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
I think we're griping about the process because Foster got appointed. If Joseph, Rennie and Gatland had stuck through to the interview and one of them got selected, we'd be lauding NZR to the heavens.
Maybe. If so may hadn’t dropped out or had even applied in the first place it would feel less like it was already decided.
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@Godder said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
I think we're griping about the process because Foster got appointed. If Joseph, Rennie and Gatland had stuck through to the interview and one of them got selected, we'd be lauding NZR to the heavens.
Agreed. Rennie and Joseph went for the sure thing. Gatland is already committed with the B&IL.
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@Godder said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
I think we're griping about the process because Foster got appointed. If Joseph, Rennie and Gatland had stuck through to the interview and one of them got selected, we'd be lauding NZR to the heavens.
So why are the new CEO Robinson and panelist Henry also criticising the process?
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I cannot see how the process could have been greatly different to how this played out, particularly in a RWC year.
Sure people thought it was a done deal, but by not even applying, Rennie and JJ left it down to 2: once it was Fozzie and his rumoured team vs Razor and his rumoured team, IMO there was only one choice at this point in time.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
@Godder said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
I think we're griping about the process because Foster got appointed. If Joseph, Rennie and Gatland had stuck through to the interview and one of them got selected, we'd be lauding NZR to the heavens.
So why are the new CEO Robinson and panelist Henry also criticising the process?
Because nobody outside NZ applied so it was obviously a bad process?
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Honestly, I think the problem is that we have to have an application process, rather than an appointment process.
I doubt that the public would be happy with the fish heads deciding who should be the coach, and them chasing that person (and their assistants).
Without that sort of procedure in place however, we may not get the applicants we want.
Personally I think that is the way to go - but that puts the CEO and board under pressure to get the right people, and then they should pay if it goes tits up.
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@gt12 said in All Black Coach - Ian Foster:
Personally I think that is the way to go - but that puts the CEO and board under pressure to get the right people, and then they should pay if it goes tits up.
100%. At the Blues, extending Lam's contract for 2 years, then sacking him after one should (in my simple mind) lead to some real consequences for the Board that appointed him.
