RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2)
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@MiketheSnow The only problem was Nig continually going on about never onside, never mentions obstruction. And Todd came from behind the try line so utter arse was spouted by Nige
So he got the offside bit wrong but the rest correct.
Todd was binned for the latter not the former.
No everything he said was wrong, for him it was preventing a try by coming in offside, so he was talking utter crap."Diving from the side" (of what?) "he was offisde" (no he wasn't) "Clearly offisde" (nope) "Came in front and prevented a try" (Sorry not allowed to be infront of a player to stop a try?). I'm not arguing the result, just the fact he did not know what he was talkng about, very similar to his talk with Beaudy's try. Only by luck was the card correct, maybe, not by actually what he described that he 'saw'.
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@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@Luigi said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
Not really sure what Matt Todd could do there?
Tackle?
Exactly. It ain’t about intent anymore. Or even it being an accident. If you’re in the way, flailing around like a epileptic squid you’re gonna get pinged. Todd got sent off for being a muppet. Can’t even claim cynicism, just rubbishness.
He's directly responsible for both of Ireland's tries. His YC was deserved - you're supposed to tackle.
Please explain to me the rule that Todd broke? He was inside, the vision clearly showed that. He did not make shoulder or arm contact with the irish player's head. It was at best a collision I would have thought? Honest question
I'd go with foul play obstruction. He made no attempt to tackle and simply plopped himself in the way.
Who is he obstructing. Isn't obstruction preventing someone from playing?
The ball carrier, from playing the ball. I suggest you watch a replay. It's obvious and uncontroversial. Ignore that he got flustered in his explanation, the penalty and card are justified.
I had to go and watch again after reading this. He did not prevent the ball carrier from playing the ball. The ball could have been made available to a team mate at any time and Todd didn’t stop him from trying to do that. He was, for the record, behind the try line when the ball carrier picked up the ball and only moved forward after that. He flopped clownishly at the base of the posts but was onside when he did it. If you called it a tackle or a breakdown then he was on the NZ side of it. If you called it open play then he can be wherever the fuck he likes.
Or are you saying that defenders have an obligation to let a player attempt to place the ball and score a try? Because I missed that law change and so has everybody else who tries to hold up the ball and prevent a score, like in every game ever.
As you’ll have gathered, I’m not accepting it’s obvious and uncontroversial just because you say so.
Of course I could be wrong but you’ll need to cite your source.
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
A no arms tackle that prevented a try from being scored.
Yellow card.
Simple.
Not getting into the Todd incident, am still working through the replay. But I noticed a distinct change in tackling technique from the AB's in this game. Super low body height, and lots of instances of guys basically throwing themselves at the feet of the attacker. No arms, no real attempt to tackle. Kind of just falling over in front of them.
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I'm perplexed about the Todd ruling as well. It wasn't a tackle and he came from onside. As for obstruction? That's for non ball carriers. The whole aim is to obstruct the ball carrier (legally).
This is the only section that comes close
The game is played only by players who are on their feet.
..............
A player on the ground without the ball is out of the game and must:
Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.
Not play the ball.
Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty.Players on their feet and without the ball must not fall on or over players on the ground who have the ball or who are near it. Sanction: Penalty.
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@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan also they used the off load just prior to contact alot more than normal too, just got that extra metre or so but bent the line forcing Ireland to adjust again and again.
ABs have stepped up a gear, adapted to the rush defence they had struggled with since 2017, England will now need to look at thier game and look at where to exploit the ABs.
Lamour probably the only Irish backline threat and he wasnt there form the start.
Pretty hard to formulate and execute a plan to combat something that just became immediately apparent, in 1 week. Safe to say the powder was kept dry for a reason
There will still be some powder left to trickle out, like 2011 teabag
They tried to run that, but with TJ screaming through the middle - pretty sure he got gobbled up by the Irish forwards, but we did win a 5m scrum by driving him over the line.
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@Machpants said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan also they used the off load just prior to contact alot more than normal too, just got that extra metre or so but bent the line forcing Ireland to adjust again and again.
ABs have stepped up a gear, adapted to the rush defence they had struggled with since 2017, England will now need to look at thier game and look at where to exploit the ABs.
Lamour probably the only Irish backline threat and he wasnt there form the start.
Pretty hard to formulate and execute a plan to combat something that just became immediately apparent, in 1 week. Safe to say the powder was kept dry for a reason
There will still be some powder left to trickle out, like 2011 teabag
They tried to run that, but with TJ screaming through the middle - pretty sure he got gobbled up by the Irish forwards, but we did win a 5m scrum by driving him over the line.
Yeah like the Teabag. Was used only in final after a successful test a few years before - then it was put in the dry powder storage ready for the final when needed. The ABs will have a few of those still up their sleeves for the Semi and Final
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@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
I'm loving the post match banter.
6 days to get back into shit-your-pants-about-England mode.
Beware the Eddie Jones factor , in 2003 we did a similar job on South Africa in a quarter final. Eddie masterminded tactics to beat us in a one off game a week later with an inferior lineup of players .
I reckon he has known for some time to win a World Cup he will probably need to beat us, and this game has been in his planning .
Yes, much like 2003, he has enough talent (potentially more in fact) to get to a semi final against us without showing his full hand. Absolutely, he's been planning for this since the draw came out. His comment about wanting to play the ABs was a dead giveaway and, surely, was delivered with the intention of dredging up some 2003 demons (although, in reality, I'm not sure Mortlock's intercept was part of his grand plans).
The good thing for us is obviously that our powder has been significantly dryer in the lead up to this tournament than it was in 2003, so hopefully his plan is less foolproof than it was back then.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@Luigi said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
Not really sure what Matt Todd could do there?
Tackle?
Exactly. It ain’t about intent anymore. Or even it being an accident. If you’re in the way, flailing around like a epileptic squid you’re gonna get pinged. Todd got sent off for being a muppet. Can’t even claim cynicism, just rubbishness.
He's directly responsible for both of Ireland's tries. His YC was deserved - you're supposed to tackle.
Please explain to me the rule that Todd broke? He was inside, the vision clearly showed that. He did not make shoulder or arm contact with the irish player's head. It was at best a collision I would have thought? Honest question
I'd go with foul play obstruction. He made no attempt to tackle and simply plopped himself in the way.
Who is he obstructing. Isn't obstruction preventing someone from playing?
Poor decision which he made worse by inventing weirder call.
When you're in a hole stop digging. Should have had the guts to reverse his initial call.
The player who is going to place the ball at the foot of the posts.
Todd prevented that by throwing himself in the way.
Illegal act which prevented a try being scored.
Penalty try, YC.
Pretty easy to work out.
Please be more specific - what was the illegal act, other than stopping the ball being placed against the post?
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@JC said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@Luigi said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@sparky said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
Not really sure what Matt Todd could do there?
Tackle?
Exactly. It ain’t about intent anymore. Or even it being an accident. If you’re in the way, flailing around like a epileptic squid you’re gonna get pinged. Todd got sent off for being a muppet. Can’t even claim cynicism, just rubbishness.
He's directly responsible for both of Ireland's tries. His YC was deserved - you're supposed to tackle.
Please explain to me the rule that Todd broke? He was inside, the vision clearly showed that. He did not make shoulder or arm contact with the irish player's head. It was at best a collision I would have thought? Honest question
I'd go with foul play obstruction. He made no attempt to tackle and simply plopped himself in the way.
Who is he obstructing. Isn't obstruction preventing someone from playing?
The ball carrier, from playing the ball. I suggest you watch a replay. It's obvious and uncontroversial. Ignore that he got flustered in his explanation, the penalty and card are justified.
I had to go and watch again after reading this. He did not prevent the ball carrier from playing the ball. The ball could have been made available to a team mate at any time and Todd didn’t stop him from trying to do that. He was, for the record, behind the try line when the ball carrier picked up the ball and only moved forward after that. He flopped clownishly at the base of the posts but was onside when he did it. If you called it a tackle or a breakdown then he was on the NZ side of it. If you called it open play then he can be wherever the fuck he likes.
The failure in your argument is the presumption that because an option might have been available to the attacker ('to a team mate'), this removes the infringement. He made no attempt to tackle the opponent, turning his back to him and flopping down onto the ground in front. Having done so he's also prevented the attacker from playing the ball, for which the attacker has options. A central tenet of the game is that you have to be on your feet to participate in the field of play.
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
A no arms tackle that prevented a try from being scored.
Yellow card.
Simple.
I’m genuinely interested in understanding this better, because I don’t think Todd was tackling rather than just putting his body in the way to prevent the try.
If I am wrong on the first point then okay. But if I’m right and he just put his body in the way to stop the try, then what is the problem given there have been plenty of attempts By a player to use their body (eg arms, legs) to prevent a try from scoring that aren’t in a tackle situation.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
@KiwiMurph said in RWC: All Blacks v Ireland (QF2):
A no arms tackle that prevented a try from being scored.
Yellow card.
Simple.
I’m genuinely interested in understanding this better, because I don’t think Todd was tackling rather than just putting his body in the way to prevent the try.
If I am wrong on the first point then okay. But if I’m right and he just put his body in the way to stop the try, then what is the problem given there have been plenty of attempts By a player to use their body (eg arms, legs) to prevent a try from scoring that aren’t in a tackle situation.
Yeah, when a player, who is on the gound slides a body part under the ball over the line to prevent a try, it's great play. Todd, wih a broken wing, did the same with his back. On his side of the ball, the Irish have to remove him just as the would all the bodies that pile up at every ruck near the line.
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I've just finished the replay. Re Todd, I feel for him cos his wing was well and truly broken as noted above. And he just kind of fell into that spot.
BUT, he did just throw his back/shoulder into a tackle attempt . No use of arms, broken or not.
Isn't that a penalty? And if so, given the try would have been scored if not for him, them isn't it a PT?
Maybe there are arguments against this, but to me it's sailing close enough to the wind to not be worth getting fired up over.
