RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C)
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@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
I think the difference is that tip tackles is a technique that has no place in the game, much like (most) shoulder charges - fairly easy to identify and ideally eradicate. A high tackle though can be pretty subjective and has lots of elements, attacking players ducking, timing, slippage etc.
I think we all want truly high tackles out of the game, but I do think there is a grey area on this one
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@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@chimoaus said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@NTA said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Going back 4 years: tip tackles and Sam Warburton.
Rarely seen nowadays.
Let's hope high tackles go the same way.
Did you see the Italian game? I agree with you but do wonder if stopping tip tackles is easier than stopping the high tackle. I guess time will tell.
I agree. Tip tackles were relatively easy to address. High shots less so but they will need to be addressed in some way
Yeah I agree, even the Oz game there were numerous high tackles. I just think players are under so much pressure to be dominant and to rush up that a simple misjudgement at speed costs them dearly. It really is a tricky situation.
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@MrDenmore said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@chimoaus Exactly. It’s about protecting the World Rugby board safe from litigation. It makes me laugh when I read all these naive idiots thinking it’s about player welfare.
When you have to resort to calling someone who opposes your argument a naive idiot you've lost the argument.
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@Billy-Tell
Some of the guys who were so good for the Jaguares in the Super season now look knackered and in need of the off-season. -
@sparky said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@Billy-Tell
Some of the guys who were so good for the Jaguares in the Super season now look knackered and in need of the off-season.Definitely.
And there was a French no fucks given attitude for lots of the match unfortunately.
They scored the best try of the match, could have had more.
Interestingly the Japanese Sunwolves players look as fresh as daises
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England had to win five successive hard fought games to win the RWC. Actually, it's only four. They played slowly and saved their energy all game long. The issue was never in doubt. Let's hope France give them a real test. An England loss would be great for the All Blacks.
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Just watching the highlights on ITV4
Red card incident seen from more angles than a dodecahedron.
English charge down which should have been a YC at least?
What English charge down? No mention of it.
Or Tuilagi hitting the man in the air.
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@cgrant said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
England had to win five successive hard fought games to win the RWC. Actually, it's only four. They played slowly and saved their energy all game long. The issue was never in doubt. Let's hope France give them a real test. An England loss would be great for the All Blacks.
Billy hurt.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Just watching the highlights on ITV4
Red card incident seen from more angles than a dodecahedron.
English charge down which should have been a YC at least?
What English charge down? No mention of it.
Or Tuilagi hitting the man in the air.
ITV playing to their audience. Probably didn’t expect a random Taff to watch the game live AND the highlights😉
Watching live, including the replays I thought the coverage was more balanced. I also thought that Owens did pretty well, the Tuilagi and Lawes incidents could have gone either way and he explained his decisions vey well in both instances. As he did when England were infringing close to the line early on.
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On the red card discussion, there was, I thought, a very good rationale by one of the pundits. Basically saying that the coaches and the players don’t give a fuck and if it takes a metric fuckton of red cards to get the current poor technique addressed then that’s the way to go. Until there is a perceived cost to the “dominant tackle” ideal then things will not change. Sound reasoning imo.
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On the send off . sin bin rule, I follow AFL which has none, and the players get harshly dealt with at a tribunal ,
like anything , there are positives and negatives,
you dont get games decided by the send off which is probably better from a spectacle point of view,
but you could argue the team on the receiving end of the foul play doesnt receive enough compensation , particularly if they have lost a player through that foul play , the team that plays them next it could be argued benefits , because of the suspension,
And it does open a window for a player in a big game to go a bit nuts knowing he wont be sent off
you could change it but i dont think it fixes everything
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
On the red card discussion, there was, I thought, a very good rationale by one of the pundits. Basically saying that the coaches and the players don’t give a fuck and if it takes a metric fuckton of red cards to get the current poor technique addressed then that’s the way to go. Until there is a perceived cost to the “dominant tackle” ideal then things will not change. Sound reasoning imo.
I get that, but if they are serious about lowering the tackle then they need to be serious about supporting that in law. Not trying for dominant tackles at this level hurts you - and your team probably loses.
If they are serious about taclking around the waist, then strict enforcing of 'no standing up after hitting the ground while even vaguely held', and stop offloading as soon as a body part (elbow or knee) is on the ground. Simplify the fark out of it, reward tacklers chopping players down
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Just watching the highlights on ITV4
Red card incident seen from more angles than a dodecahedron.
English charge down which should have been a YC at least?
What English charge down? No mention of it.
Or Tuilagi hitting the man in the air.
ITV playing to their audience. Probably didn’t expect a random Taff to watch the game live AND the highlights😉
Watching live, including the replays I thought the coverage was more balanced. I also thought that Owens did pretty well, the Tuilagi and Lawes incidents could have gone either way and he explained his decisions vey well in both instances. As he did when England were infringing close to the line early on.
We just want consistency
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Consistency would be good but not easy when you have different instances, different refs, TMOs and interpretations. Trial by a single frame shot is not really supportive of consistency either. I’m assuming the second shot was the Piers Francis thing? If so, I’d say he was lucky but also that it was nowhere in the same league as the Quill one or the Argie today.
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@nzzp said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
If they are serious about taclking around the waist, then strict enforcing of 'no standing up after hitting the ground while even vaguely held', and stop offloading as soon as a body part (elbow or knee) is on the ground. Simplify the fark out of it, reward tacklers chopping players down
I like that. It worked for Dan Carter.
Go further and and make it place the ball immediately once on the ground - get rid of "not held" altogether. I've never liked that law as it can easily go one of two ways - penalty to defending team as ball carrier didn't immediately place ball while held, or penalty to attacking team as tackler tries to pilfer ball without a clear release. It's almost contradictory - got to let him go to steal the ball, or not let him go and he can get up and run again.
Passing off the ground is a more recent (several decades ago - I'm getting old) law change anyway, but does increase the speed of the game and the scoring opportunity so I'd leave that and would be considered "placing" or releasing the ball.
It can also be quite simple if you make it the "one knee" law like a maul becoming a tackle.
Probably heaps of unintended consequences in some of that so I will appreciate the criticism and ridicule and say GFYs in advance.
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@Snowy said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
@voodoo I don't think you actually read or understood the whole thing?
Clearly I'm exaggerating for effect. But I think the "tackle below the waist" thing is a game wrecker. Losing the dominant tackle will totally change the game. And I still haven't figured out how you tackle a forward running with perfect body height. Imagine trying to tackle Keew Meeuws 1m out from the line!!!
Does run cage v waist make a difference? Maybe, I dunno
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@voodoo said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):
Clearly I'm exaggerating for effect. But I think the "tackle below the waist" thing is a game wrecker.
Which is why I mentioned in my clarification below the ribs. Hit Kees in the belly he still stops, and don't let them get that close because it gets harder to defend, for sure. Maybe more close to the line tries for props. They need the help, don't score too many now.
Yeah I think a little higher makes a difference, it is the ball carry area and you can still knock a guy over, knock the ball out, rather than just cut him down.
